The five most important questions of Boise State football's Fall Camp
We public people won't get our first look at the 2011 Boise State football team for another two weeks, so while Fall Camp continues in its secret shroud, my many questions remain unanswered. Here are five of them now. Feel free to add some of yours in the comments.
Question No. 1: Who will play nickel and will we love him as much as we loved Winston Venable?
When it comes to the most giant hole on the Boise State defense, people like to point and say, "There's a giant black void of blown assignments at strong safety." Well, that may be true, but the position is at least equally as wide open as nickel. Hunter White, Dextrell Simmons, and Jonathan Brown are in a three-way battle for the starting role (White is in the pole position). Let reader MKingery bring you up to speed on where we're at with things:
I think the play of our Nickel is pivotal. We were spoiled in how seemless Venable came in and morphed into the position and a defensive leader. That probably put too high of expectations on Dextrell Simmons to do the same as a JC transfer this year.
I would love for the Dex to be our starting nickel, but mostly I just want someone who can do the job capably if not at the same level as Venable from a year ago. There are enough other defensive studs on this team to compensate.
Question No. 2: What has Brent Pease been up to this summer?
The new offensive coordinator at Boise State has a lot of shiny toys to work with on the Bronco offense, but he also has some obstacles. No returning starters on the right side of the O-line. Two new go-to receivers. Mitch Burroughs (I kid!). The Pease angle is flying under the radar, probably because people think that the offense won't change much with Pease in charge. Drew and I even had a friendly debate about just that topic, so it will be nice to get some closure. Our blood feud has gone on long enough.
Question No. 3: Is Jake Van Ginkel the next Tyler Jones?
I don't think I've been this excited about watching special teams at a scrimmage since Michael Atkinson was returning kicks.
Question No. 4: What offensive line shenanigans will we see?
So far through Fall Camp, no tackles have been moved to guard or guards to center or centers to tackle. I think coaches are lulling us to sleep though. Be ready for anything, Bronco fans.
The biggest changes could happen as a result of the new right side of the O-line where Charles Leno and Chuck Hayes are currently playing. Or those two could turn out to be really good and Boise State goes into the season with a stellar starting lineup - then BLAMMO! Thomas Byrd is a tight end and Brad Elkin is snapping.
Question No. 5: Pass defense or run defense?
I fully expect the defense to be ahead of the offense at the fall scrimmage. But will the pass defense be ahead of the run defense? Or vice versa? There are a lot of moving parts on the Bronco D, so it will be interesting to find out whether teams will have a better chance running against the Broncos, passing against the Broncos, or bowing down to worship the Broncos.
Your turn
What questions are plaguing you at Boise State's Fall Camp? Any unresolved issues? Any burning questions? Share your thoughts in the comments.
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Question for you, Kevan...
I noticed this was posted at 7:30 am. First thing I do in the morning is check my OBNUG. (Well… second thing. Logging out is the first thing. And I don’t mean on a computer.) Are you up writing at 6:00, or do you have a few you’ve worked up the night before to appease we/us rabid fans?
Kevan is actually on vacation
So, he wrote this post ahead of time and scheduled it. But the time’s your seeing are Pacific time so it was up by 8:30 Boise time.
wideouts
My question is whether or not Aaron Burks and Kirby Moore are going to be breakout stars this year. They are both capable, now if Kellen can get them the ball and if they can catch it is going to be the question. If they do what I think they can do it will be another bad year for bronco opponents.
I think they'll step it up....
Pete does a great job preparing these boys. I expect Boldewijn and Shoemaker to have big seasons, but Burks and Moore will contribute quite a bit as well. Still trying to figure out where Miller fits into all of this.
September 3rd, 2011 - Chick-fil-A Kickoff Game - Boise State vs Georgia
"Being realistic is the most commonly traveled path to mediocrity" - Will Smith
Catch
If they can’t catch they won’t play. I am more concerned that they run to the right spot, where Kellen is going to be throwing the ball. Zigging when they should be Zagging would be the killer.
JB
by THE Jay Bates on Aug 9, 2011 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Who's going to be the next holder?
Pettis held down this position extremely well and was exciting and effective when going for two. Not only do we not have an experienced kicker but the holder is going to be new as well. Will the new holder be a quarterback? A wide receiver? Will they get the laces out? Will going for two still be a part of the gameplan?
Hedrick is supposedly a little faster than Southwick
so maybe they make him the holder and then our 2pt conversion options are limitless. Then again, Chris Potter would work well, seeing as how he played some QB in high school.
"Gandhi didn't take a knee, Martin Luther King didn't take a knee, Thomas Edison didn't take a knee, and I sure as hell am not going to take a knee." -- Dan Hawkins
Yes Hedrick would be a good choice too. I think it will be one of these three.
I thought of Potter for his good hands and he has thrown the ball.
by bluebyeu on Aug 9, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My 2 cents: Potter ahs more game experience, including punt returns, and I'd go with him
as stiuation more often will be a run and Potter is more “football” fast than Hedrick. If it comes to toss, as noted Potter can pass-he’s decent.
tvmunson
by tmunson on Aug 9, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Does the nickel play a hybrid DB/LB role?
If so, that’s got to be critical on D, especially when you’re got a host of new offenses to defend.
Teams that play 4 in the back usually use their first back-up CB as the nickel, so he’s usually less-gifted than the starters. But if you’ve got 5 in the back, that nickel spot takes on a lot more importance if he’s regularly taking the place of a LB.
I think our nickel plays more a LB/DB role;and yes he regularly takes the place of an LB-we have a lot of 4-2-5, probably our base D.
tvmunson
tmunson I have a request, even though it is off topic from this thread.
You may be the one who can answer this for me. It came up in a discussion I was having with someone and I can’t remember the players name and it is driving me crazy.
We had a defensive back who after his football career, turned to boxing. He was being trained by a friend of mine (Jerry) at a local boxing club in Boise. Jerry also trained Kenny Keene (the Emmett eliminator) through his amateur career. Unfortunately this former bronco decided to turn pro after like 2 fights, against the advice of Jerry. Didn’t work out so well. I remember being at the gym and sitting down next to him, and saying OMG his arms are the size of cannons. If he hits me with those I will start crying like a baby(when I wake up) Was it Carl Keever? My memory has escaped me.
by bluebyeu on Aug 9, 2011 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It wasn't Keever, trust me.
Sorry I can’t help you otherwise.
You cannot reason a man out of something he didn't reason himself into in the first place.
Not Keever; only boxer i recall is Jimmy Ellis, and want a DB plus he fought George Foreman
Was this local club with Al Berro’s son?
tvmunson
Thanks munson for the memory jog.
It was Jimmy Ellis. He was drafted by the Raiders but didn’t make the final cut. His brother was a boxing promoter and convinced Jimmy to go pro after just a couple fights. My friend Jerry wanted him to stay amateur for a couple years to develop technique.
I don’t know who owned the boxing club, I think it was on Franklin between Orchard and Phillipe(sp). Jerry Bidel was a trainer/manager there. Here is a link to an LA Times story about Jimmy.
by bluebyeu on Aug 9, 2011 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is there a Gazetta here in the future?
Would love to see it.
I wouldn't say Jimmy's career "didn't work out", made $300,000 or so for fighting Foreman-lasted 3 rounds.
I used to work in the same buildign with him and we talked several times about that fight and Boise State. He was showing me some moves once and when I acted hesitant he looked at me, shrugged, and siad “you’re a big dude”, as though I had nothing to worry about. And this from a guy who fought Big george. My partner had been on the Bronco team as walk on RB; never got in a game but in the alumin/varsity game that they used to play he ahd frmaed a pic of Jimmy Ellis tackling him.
tvmunson
I guess my comment of "didn't work out"
was kind of directed at the fact he needed alot of trainging to become that “scientic fighter”. He could maul people and he could take big hits, but lacked the boxing experience to be in the ring with George. My friend(the trainer) didn’t want him to go pro until he was ready. He held Kenny back for a couple years untill his skills could make up for some other deficiencies. I think if Jimmy had trained for a couple years his career would have surpassed what he made off the Foreman fight. Not to mention he got pummeled.
First I thought of was...
..Frank Robinson or maybe Keith Walk-Green.
As defensive backs and in order to to fit in the Kenny Keene time frame, those are two with the boxing body type, but I have never heard of any Bronco player going into professional boxing.
Do you remember what year it would have been. If it wasn’t a DB, I could see someone like Erik Helgeson or even Bart Hull going into boxing. (Although I believe Hull took a shot at minor league hockey after he was done with the CFL)
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
Mkingery, it was Jimmy Ellis
I posted a link above. Thanks for the response, and it’s nice to see those names again.
A common misconception is that large arms i e biceps equals punching power; aint' so, at least in ring.
Boxing involves using the body and leverage; arm punching is not effective agaisnt a scientific boxer. This was most clearly demostrated by Ed “Too Tall” Jones. He got into a contract dispute with the Cowboys and went on a brief pro boxing career.They brought in harmless Italian heavyweights who barely weighed 200 lbs, but even then Ed couldnt do anything to them with his arm punches.In his last bout the italian spoke no English, and was trying to figure out how to throw the fight. He finally said “what the hell” and began tagging Ed until the ref disqualified him, probably for fighting.Ed’s boxing training stood him in good stead however; he was quicker, stronger, better foot work-he was a much better DT after that.
tvmunson
Yeah, the 4-2-5 is our Base Defense
We will shift to 3-3-5 and 3-4 looks sometimes but our base is the 4-2-5.
In the 4-2-5, there is a 3rd Safety. We call it a Nickel for some reason, which I have never really understood since that is typically your 3rd CB in the Nickel defense and is in primarily to cover a 3rd WR in the slot.
When a team runs a 4-2-5 as a base (Boise St. and TCU), the 3rd DB is a safety and is often used as a member of the front 7. He needs to have some zone coverage skills as well and enough speed to play in the middle of the secondary. But he blitzes or plays run support quite a bit.
I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010
Thanks
I’m not sure what you mean about the NB being a 3rd safety. It’s not hard to confuse me (hey, at least I know it). Do you mean he has more of a safety body type?
by first and thom on Aug 9, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's what I mean
You know how when most teams go Nickel they bring in a 3rd corner to cover the slot or 3rd and long passing situations? That’s where I mean the terminology could be switched up some for clarification purposes.
What a base 4-2-5 team uses as their 5th secondary man is what most teams refer to as a Rover. Some teams call it Bandit or name it after their team (The “Dawg” position in UGa’s case if they were to use it). Whatever they call it, this position is normally a hybrid position. Sometimes it’s just a LBer who happens to have excellent athleticism and pass coverage skills but normally it is a Run Stopping safety who can cover middle zone areas, typically can hit hard, and has decent hands for the pick every now and again. At the HS level this kind of player typically played safety but are considered to be more of a “in the box” run support safety than a “coverage safety”.
As an example, Ronnie Lott and Roy Williams of the NFL would make excellent Rovers b/c they had the size, tenacity, explosive hitting power, and skill set you would look for in a LBer but also possess good pass defense skills while maybe not able to shed blocks quite as well as a pure LBer. This is opposed to guys like Ed Reed and Darren Sharper who are better suited to being ball hawks, capable of going man up on a slot WR if needed, and delivering solid hits on WRs and TEs in the secondary.
The idea is to keep the offense guessing as to what this guy will be doing on a given down. He should be strong enough to play like a LBer and get off blocks while being fast enough to play a traditional safety position.
The whole defense, along with the 3-3-5, was designed to combat the growing amount of spread offenses, probably the spread option specifically, which actually runs more than it passes, so it could have the flexibility to cover all the receivers while also able to play stout run defense. The inherent danger in running this kind of system is “getting too small”. Due to the kinds of guys you are recruiting it becomes a little easier to get a guy who doesn’t really have the size/strength to play in the front 7 but is terrific in pass coverage. This is what happened to Michigan under RichRod as I understand it. A good Rover will likely be around 215-225 pounds imo…typical 4-3 LBer size.
Hopefully that was informative…I just realized I rambled badly on this reply…which is a consistent tendency of mine :p
I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010
I appreciate your time.
This helps me understand.
by first and thom on Aug 10, 2011 6:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Febis will be as close to Jeron Johnson at SS as can be achieved. He puts the wood to people.
Hunter White would be capable at nickel. Every year we have changes (well, in recent times we’ve been blessed with consistency, but thsi year is more realistic)and a star emerges at a different position while a very capable player takes over for the previous year’s star. This year on D I think the D-line will be stellar, dominant, LBs good to very good, secondary capable. I’ve had my eye on Burks since the 1st time I saw him-he went under radar however.Kellen will not have luxury of WRs who can “make” the play to the extent Austin & Titus did; Kellen will need to make it happen Moore as Coach Pete noted in his press conference. As season progresses, WRs will begin to “make” more plays. I have never, never, seen a Boise State team that did not have very good receivers in 43 years. The qualities and emphasis in talent changes, but the staff is very good at designing plays to fit the skill set presented. O-line should be solid, and as Kellen himself noted, the O and D lines win the games. Is Harper healthy, and can he stay healthy? I keep coming back to that because I think Pease has a small surprise for everyone-a noticeable shift to the running game. We’ll need RBs-after Martin and Harper it’s anyone’s guess.Lambert aint it. As for D, it’s aslo been a very very long time since I’ve had to worry about our secondary, and I doubt this year is any exception.
tvmunson
My question...........
Why isn’t football season here already?
I,ve been working out….![]()
even harder….
even those tough abs and rear end…
and even cleaned my screen….
.had help
yet the season is not here…
I can’t take it………….I’m all ready to go.
yea feeling good about this year.
That’s my question……….. WHY can’t they start now, I’m ready for some football!!!!!
Go Broncos, can’t wait for football to start.
Had to throw in as many cat gifs as possible knowing this fan base……….;)
by papaspud on Aug 9, 2011 9:20 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
very very funny.
Loved the kitten doing pushups
I'm the 12 th man its my job its my duty.
by Dothework on Aug 9, 2011 9:28 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
My Question
Did they put a govenor on Billy to prevent him from going ful speed. I don’t want him hurting anyone till the seasone starts.
I'm the 12 th man its my job its my duty.
by Dothework on Aug 9, 2011 9:32 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Hate to say it, KICKER.
Kicker, kicker kicker. BW kicker ! Let’s hope it’s not a worry this year.
"Boise State football is now a Fargo winter. You know what's coming, and that information does you no good whatsoever". Matt James / The Fresno Bee
At least we aren't worried about the left hash mark...
by ce'sped azul on Aug 9, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I never want to hear/read/see/think phrase "left hash mark" the rest of my life.
tvmunson
by tmunson on Aug 9, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Amen Brother Munson.
"Every Damn Day."- Coach Pete
....."The future belongs to those who prepare for it today..." TODAY IS THE TOMORROW THAT I EARNED YESTERDAY!!!! LEGGGOOO.....{E.A.T.}
Elevate at All Times"-George Iloka
by Broncograd96 on Aug 9, 2011 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Whenever anyone calls me brother I put my hand over my wallet.(ref Joseph Goebbles re term culture-"whenver I hear it I reach for my reovlver")
that applies especially to my family
tvmunson
freaking rec.
I <3 brotz but holy crap.
"I don’t need a dictionary, I have an ipad, and an expensive large university education." - hrman7
"They're part pep rally, part freak show..." - Jim Rome, on Bronco Nation
by reflectivity on Aug 9, 2011 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
2008 team
I have been re watching to 2008 Oregon game. When I look at it it is crazy to think about all the young FR/So players we had on the team step up and play big. I think the same thing will happen this year.
"Every Damn Day."- Coach Pete
....."The future belongs to those who prepare for it today..." TODAY IS THE TOMORROW THAT I EARNED YESTERDAY!!!! LEGGGOOO.....{E.A.T.}
Elevate at All Times"-George Iloka
by Broncograd96 on Aug 9, 2011 12:08 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Got to the end of the game
I of my fav stats of the game was that Kellen completed passes to 12 different players. That really shows that he can conect to a lot of different WR.
"Every Damn Day."- Coach Pete
....."The future belongs to those who prepare for it today..." TODAY IS THE TOMORROW THAT I EARNED YESTERDAY!!!! LEGGGOOO.....{E.A.T.}
Elevate at All Times"-George Iloka
by Broncograd96 on Aug 10, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
There is a 6 minute highlight compilaton on youtube. One of my fave is a very long pass to Childs.
He’s covered by 3 guys, but gets it. In background you can see an Oregon assistant holding a clipboard, and as he realizes Child’s has it he slams it in frustration. another great one is on 3rd and long; Kellen gets nailed, but completes it again to Childs. He’s laying on the ground giving signals to the sidelines. childs made another great catch, reaching around player, but it was nullified when we fumbled the next snap.Vinnie’s 71 yard TD after Oregon had reocvered fumble and scored was another. I could go on. I was over there next week-Oregon fans still couldn’t believe we’d nailed there nat’l champ plans. Wait ’til next year. yeah.
tvmunson
Kicker
Have you ever noticed that when your talking about or reading about a kicker, it is almost always bad? The very best kicker is the one you never hear about. We remember when they suck. There may be the trick play, punter passes for a first down or runs for a first down, but those are few and far between. Does anyone remember how many game winning kicks Boise state has had over the last 10 years? What about the name of the kicker who did it? How about the number of touch backs the kickers have over the same time? How about what the yards per punt were over the same 10 years? Very few people remember that stuff. I think we can all still remember when they lose a game for you, or when the kicking game was bad. This is why I don’t want to know the name of our kicker, I want him to be an after thought. Do you think Georgia is giddy because they have the best punter and kicker in the SEC this year, or the fact they have the best QB in the SEC? Do you think they are telling everyone, " We are gunna beat BSU because we have the best kickers"? Find me that sound bite or paper quote. The only people that like to read articles about kickers are the writers who are writing about it. If we can go through the season and not have a reason to know the kickers names, I am pretty sure we would have had a good year. We will remember the great pass that set up the kick, not the missed kick that wasted such a great opportunity to score. (It still hurts)
JB
by THE Jay Bates on Aug 9, 2011 6:29 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

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