Which receiver will Boise State miss the most in 2011?
by Drew Roberts on Feb 8, 2011 10:01 AM PST
in Boise State football
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PrintI know with the conclusion of the Super Bowl, next football season seems impossibly far away, but take heart football fans (at least those of the college football variety), Spring football is just weeks away and many of the 2011 season's biggest questions will begin to be answered. The Broncos have some key players returning, but the big storyline for this Spring is who we'll be missing. After the jump, join Kevan and I as we wage a fierce email battle royale to answer the question of which Bronco receiver's departure will leave the bigger hole in the offense. Words were said, feelings were hurt. Basically, it went exactly like I'd hoped.
Drew starts things off:
So this week's been a real doozy. My wife was nice enough to bequeath me a raging flu that tore me up and made me feel like the arthritic emperor from the Star Wars movies. Since I was a kid, when I got real sick and ran a high enough fever, I would get delirious. Well, guess what happened to me Tuesday night in the middle of a nasty 103º bout? That's right...I got delirious. Down was up, up was down, and I really wasn't sure where I was or why that anthropomorphic toaster was singing me showtunes from the foot of my bed. At the height of my delirium I could've sworn that we would be without the services of both Austin Pettis and Titus Young next year. Thankfully, the fever broke at about 3 AM, but the horrible nightmare of losing our #1 and #2 receivers for 2011 must have struck me in a moment of lucidity. Titus Young and Austin Pettis are gone next year and they'll not easily be replaced. Even with Kellen Moore still under center, the loss of a dynamic duo that rewrote the Bronco record books since their true freshman seasons will leave a gaping void that can not and will not be filled in 2011. This all led me to ponder which receiver the Broncos will truly miss the most. I'll proffer my suggestion below, Kevan will play devil's advocate and offer a rebuttal...unless he agrees with me, in which case, this will be the world's shortest roundtable (besides the one in Chris Ault's dining room). Here goes.
Oh, and somersaults (via cdn3.sbnation.com)
The Broncos will miss Titus Young more for a number of reasons. Here's one: Boise State can scheme a player to get open. They cannot scheme a player to outrun single coverage. When Boise State wants to throw a 3rd and 3 pass next season, they can line up Tyler Shoemaker, Kirby Moore, and Geraldo Hiwat, pull out some fresh Chris Strausser route juju, and voila! First and ten. When the Broncos want to throw a deep bomb on 1st and 10 for kicks and giggles, they can hope and pray Geraldo Hiwat beats one-on-one coverage. Voila! Crapshoot.
Here's reason No. 2: Boise State has already experienced life without Austin Pettis to some extent. I am convinced that Pettis was not 100 percent for parts of last season, and BSU's offense didn't seem to be the worst for wear. That's thanks in large part to Young and in small part to Boise State's other receivers. No one could replace Pettis in the lineup, but they could come close enough that the team wasn't falling apart into a 2008 Poinsettia Bowl mess.
I have many more reasons, but I'll let you rebut. Hehe, "rebut."
"Thanks for having my back, Kev" (via cdn3.sbnation.com)
Drew's response:
I certainly can't argue that Titus brought the deep-ball back like Justin Timberlake brought sexy back...but here's what I can't agree with: that it was necessary.
So let me approach this WR convo from a different angle. Which receiver will the Broncos miss the most? How about: Which receiver is most easily replaced? I say Austin Pettis, and I say so with the fear and trepidation that he might find out I said this, hunt me down, challenge me to an All-Stars skills competition, and embarrass me in front of my family and friends. It would be ugly. I lack hand-eye coordination.
For the sake of argument, let's dumb down Pettis and Young's roles in the offense to "possession receiver - chain mover" and "speed freak - deep threat." That was very irresponsible what I just did, but oh well. The role of possession receiver can be handled by any number of Broncos. Tyler Shoemaker has good hands. Kirby Moore, I presume, has good hands. The role of chain mover can be handled by scheme. There are five eligible receivers on every play who will fill in the role of chain mover in Pettis's absence including but not limited to tight ends, slots, fullbacks, jumbo TE Chuck Hayes, etc. The Broncos have options here. They do not have options for "speed freak," unless Dallas Burroughs and Geraldo Hiwat can be fused together, preferably with four arms (the better to catch and text with).
Other Young > Pettis arguments I have at the ready:
- Boise State played with a 75 percent Pettis for much of the 2010 season and is therefore already slightly prepared to replace him.
- Vinny Perretta tried to replace Titus Young a few years back, and it didn't work.
- Geraldo Hiwat is further from being Titus Young than Tyler Shoemaker is from being Austin Pettis.
Service!
Drew's response:
Yes, we are doing nicknames. Here's one I just came up with for you: Wrongy Wrongerson (nice ring to it—very formal). Austin Pettis is more easily replaced than Titus Young? Am I on Candid Camera? Pettis had a once-in-a-decade combination of height, hands, and physicality...maybe even more than a decade. Plus, he swings a mean bat at charity softball games...that can't be taught.
I'm going to miss both of these guys like I miss LOST now that it's off the air, but Austin Pettis easier to replace? Sir, you forget yourself! Remove yourself from the premises forthwith before the constabulary is summoned!
Austin Pettis was much more than a chain mover...he was a touchdown scorer...and that is something more valuable than top-end speed if you ask me—which you did, in a roundabout way. Titus Young will go to the combine at the end of this month and in all likelihood not run the 4.2 40 that he's been hyping everyone up for. In fact, I'll be surprised if Titus is the fastest WR at the combine. He may well be the quickest—both in footwork and in willingness to throw up hang loose signs—but he probably won't be the fastest. Heck, in straight line speed Geraldo Hiwat and Dallas Burroughs are probably faster than Titus...and isn't that the Titus asset you're coveting? Titus' bread and butter was the long ball, and if Hiwat can't get separation 40 yards down the field than he isn't what he's been billed as. Personally, I want to see a guy get separation at 5, 10, and 15 yards...and that is what a good, physical route-runner with soft hands like Pettis can do. You'll certainly see more in-game situations calling for receivers gaining that kind of modest yardage than the once-a-game bombs that Titus was hauling in. Also consider this: if Titus was nigh-uncoverable on deep routes, why didn't they just have Kellen chuck the ball downfield as hard as he could for 3 straight downs? Because despite Titus' speed, it's still a low-percentage play. Pettis made moving the chains and redzone TDs high-percentage plays...and that's what wins ballgames.
Checkmate and king me.
Kevan's response:
Indeed. LOST was the King of Queens of its time.
I fear we have reached an impasse on this one. I see Pettis's skills as fairly replaceable because there are as many ways to gain 10 yards as there Jesse Palmer suit-tie combinations. Not so much with 50 yard plays. Those are rare. Unless you have Titus Young on your team. Which Boise State doesn't any more. Sad. Fragments.
So let's move on to other topics upon which we won't agree. The Boise State offense is more prepared to replace an Austin Pettis than they are a Titus Young. Pettis missed 2010's Fiesta Bowl, and the Broncos won. Pettis fell into a WR2 role this season, and Boise State won. Second, the wide receivers who remain on the Boise State roster are nearer in skill set to Pettis than they are to Young, making the transition easier for the Pettis role than for the Young role. Thirds (which rhymes with turds), there was only one wide receiver who led the team in receiving and touchdowns and drew the opponent's No. 1 corner week in and week out. Hint: Not Mitch Burroughs.
I leave you with this: Titus Young was closer to being Austin Pettis than Austin Pettis was to being Titus Young. I don't think I can make that any clearer.
Drew's response:
Methinks Pettis was closer to Titus than you think. He ran a 4.48 40 at the Broncos pro day last year...this wasn't long after the ankle break heard 'round the world against Nevada. I'm willing to bet most Division 1 cornerbacks can run in the 4.4 range and are capable of keeping up with or at least closing on fast receivers (provided they don't bite on a pump fake or get juked out of their jock)...corners could be covering Pettis like OJ Simpson's leather gloves...but it didn't make a hill of beans difference. "Uncoverable" is the tag I'd apply not to the guy that occasionally finds himself leading a cornerback parade 50 yards downfield, but the guy that despite the DBs proximity to him still hauls in the pass time and again. It's science. Deal with it.
Kevan's response:
How about similarity as a part of the offense? Titus Young ran screens. He went over the middle. He did comebacks. He ran deep out, crossing patterns, you name it. Young's evolution during the course of the season was as an all-around receiver, which is more Pettis-like than people probably realize. I do not believe that vice versa (Pettis as deep threat) could be said.
Drew's final appeal:
Fair enough. Let's let the people decide. OBNUG is a democracy after all. I would like to mention, however, before the will of the people is put forth, that in last season's offseason roundtable I predicted Doug Martin would be our starter. My track record speaks for itself.
Kevan with the last word:
And for the record, I take back everything bad I just said about Austin Pettis. Democratize this piece.
Your turn
Just how wrong is Kevan? State the obvious in the comments.
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It is Young, barely...
Great arguement! You both had such good subjects to argue about.
Young is the WR we will miss most, though. The deciding factor is that Titus still has so much unlocked potential that is begging to be released. Titus Young’s senior year showed how verisitial and dominate he can be. He ran a lot of Pettis’s route, made tough over the middle catches, proved to be a scorer even in the red zone AND was absolutley money seperating on and catching the deep ball. Pettis’s season season he showed us that he is Austin Pettis. Great hands, great routes and money on third downs all things that Titus can be as well without the sexy vertical speed.
Deep balls may be risky with great quarterbacks but with the immortal Moore and the blazing Young they became as high prectenage as a handoff during Young’s senior year. Pettis, on the other hand, was a little less stick ‘em extrodinare his senior year and averaged about a drop a game…It’s Young, if barely!!!
"As soon as they're in the open field, nobody is going to catch them. Doug, even if somebody is right in front of him, he might run him over."
- Travis Stanaway
Senior season for Pettis not season season,
that wouldnt make any sense…
"As soon as they're in the open field, nobody is going to catch them. Doug, even if somebody is right in front of him, he might run him over."
- Travis Stanaway
by TooMuchYoung on Feb 8, 2011 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
OH!!! the "Hawaii Hang Loose" was more timely and unique then "The Sommersault"
EVERYONE is doing flips into the endzone these days!
"As soon as they're in the open field, nobody is going to catch them. Doug, even if somebody is right in front of him, he might run him over."
- Travis Stanaway
by TooMuchYoung on Feb 8, 2011 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
I am going to miss Pettis more
While both were amazing, Pettis had some of the most clutch catches in Boise history, he was arguably the the most dangerous red zone threat in the country. And after watching him win the hands competition in the all star challenge I am sure that we will find a deep threat burner before we find another Pettis.
The Nevada game catch by Young
Should have been the most clutch in school history!
"As soon as they're in the open field, nobody is going to catch them. Doug, even if somebody is right in front of him, he might run him over."
- Travis Stanaway
by TooMuchYoung on Feb 8, 2011 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ridiculous catch
If that game would have been a W, that catch would have received a lot more attention.
"It takes no talent to give great effort" -Chris Petersen
"It's hard to imagine a more complete football team than Boise State" - Kirk Herbstreit
"Watch the point, catch the fat." - Larry Fitzgerald
Might have changed this ohsoclose argument too!
"As soon as they're in the open field, nobody is going to catch them. Doug, even if somebody is right in front of him, he might run him over."
- Travis Stanaway
by TooMuchYoung on Feb 8, 2011 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
What Nevada game are you talking about?
I don’t recall us playing Nevada last season.
by kcam on Feb 8, 2011 12:53 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
i said SHOULD HAVE been
….you know, if we would have played them!
"As soon as they're in the open field, nobody is going to catch them. Doug, even if somebody is right in front of him, he might run him over."
- Travis Stanaway
by TooMuchYoung on Feb 8, 2011 1:13 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Titus drop in the Nevada game
First drive of the second half, Boise state is up 24-7 and KM and Dougie are eating up the field without breaking a sweat. 2nd and 9, Kellen throws over the middle to Mitch “Lightning Rod” Burroughs, hits him in the chest and Burroughs drops it. 3rd and 9 Kellen goes deep down the left hash to an open Titus who has an over the shoulder catch…that he also drops. Broncos punt and Nevada puts together their first sustained drive of the game and gain confidence and the momentum swings. If Titus catches that ball inside their 10, we go up 31-7 and the game is over
by MyDadTeachesatBSU on Feb 8, 2011 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Because...
I still have nightmares about those two drops. They are permanently etched into my subconcious. His grab at the end of the game should have made up for it, but we wouldn’t have needed it if her hauled this one in.
by MyDadTeachesatBSU on Feb 8, 2011 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
someone put up a biff like stat sheet on wr drops last season, i bet the results would be a surprise to most...
"As soon as they're in the open field, nobody is going to catch them. Doug, even if somebody is right in front of him, he might run him over."
- Travis Stanaway
The Burroughs drop ref'd above; I got the uh-oh feeling,
like when Father O’Malley invited me into the rectory to discuss me being his “special” altar boy over a glass of communion sherry. I just felt like the hook was in, and we let it slip out. And I think the rest incl Titus’s drop sort of flowed. I know the readership thinks I’m down on “Lightning” Mitch. But I wouldnt post here if I couldnt let it all hang out and that is my truth.
tvmunson
Looked like the CB screened him
I don’t think he could see the ball…..rather than just dropping it.
The obnug flag has 49 stars.
If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change the way you think about it. Maya Angelou
BSU changes the BCS! 2011
Actually it only has 48 stars...
…but after 9-3-2011 we will be ready to finally annex Georgia.
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
Yep.
If that’s Pettis, Moore is throwing a jumpball to him at the 30 yard line – and Pettis would still catch it.
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
i agree...there are no wrong answers in this one.
Both amazing recievers that additional were helped by each other. They were as complimentary of a #1 and #2 tandem could be.
"As soon as they're in the open field, nobody is going to catch them. Doug, even if somebody is right in front of him, he might run him over."
- Travis Stanaway
by TooMuchYoung on Feb 8, 2011 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
I don't know why
But I just have this feeling that Troy Ware is going to step up and be the next dangerous weapon at WR, I don’t have any stats or evidence to back up this feeling, but I am completely confident none the less.
Same irrational feeling, different guy
Putting all my eggs in the Matt Miller basket!
"As soon as they're in the open field, nobody is going to catch them. Doug, even if somebody is right in front of him, he might run him over."
- Travis Stanaway
by TooMuchYoung on Feb 8, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
Titus Young
Titus Young stretches the field. Not only could he go deep but opponents knew he could go deep, making him a bigger threat. Corners wouldn’t press coverage for fear of giving up a deep ball. If that wasn’t enough, Titus was a threat on inside screen passes and on on the ground where he could run a reverse. Titus was the more versatile receiver of the two because of his big play ability.
We haven’t seen another receiver on the depth chart yet who can fill all these roles. There might be one and we all know who the prospects are but they haven’t stepped up yet.
Make no mistake, Pettis wasn’t chopped liver. I can’t think of a receiver with better hands. However, one big void Pettis leaves is having a big body to throw to. And there’s a lot of size on the BSU depth chart.
"It takes no talent to give great effort" -Chris Petersen
"It's hard to imagine a more complete football team than Boise State" - Kirk Herbstreit
"Watch the point, catch the fat." - Larry Fitzgerald
Guys, guys...
It’s both a whipping cream and a floor cleaner!
by kcam on Feb 8, 2011 10:34 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I lean to Young. Pettis harder to replace, but Young will initially be missed the most.
I don’t think we will see another receiver like Pettis in a long time and his combination of skills will be hard to replace, but Titus did things that made defenses prepare for the Broncos entirely different than they will next year. I don’t think there was a single snap in the Vegas Bowl where Utah didn’t have over-the-top safety help on Titus’ side. This opened up space for Pettis (and Shoemaker) to work magic over the middle.
BSU will have other burner type receivers, but I am not sure they will have one that can get in and out of cuts/breaks they way Titus does. The addition of the comeback route, made his deep threat even more deadly.
BSU’s offense has a knack for getting receivers so open that they do not need the circus-like abilities of Pettis to be successful. Shoemaker will be a serviceable possession guy, but I haven’t seen anything out of Hiwat that makes me believe he will strike fear in opposing defenses in 2011.
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
one more criterion..."number of touchdowns thrown to KM"
Pettis wins!!!
or “number of last minute downfield throws against VT”
Young wins!!! !!!
i give up, no amount of rationalization will brighten the gloom of losing them both to aging…
isn’t the BSU school of science still working on the anti-aging formula? hurry up yall!
"… There are so many times in life that you’re just extremely disappointed and depressed and in the tank and you still have to perform and you still have to rally and you still have to move forward and that’s, to me, the lesson right now. That’s true toughness when you can perform at your best when you just don’t feel like it." Coach Petersen Nov, 2010
Pettis wins on punts blocked and passes thrown to himself
by Drew Roberts on Feb 8, 2011 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
Young wins for one million yard kickoff returns for a td against Idaho
"As soon as they're in the open field, nobody is going to catch them. Doug, even if somebody is right in front of him, he might run him over."
- Travis Stanaway
by TooMuchYoung on Feb 8, 2011 1:15 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
One million and six for the record
He was six yards deep into the endzone. Best ancillary moment? A Mr. D. Martin laying a ferocious, beastly block on some hapless dUI ST player. Think DM vs. Keo only with Martin not having to worry about carrying the ball and really lowering his shoulders. I highly encourage a video review for pharmaceutical grade awesomicity. You may need to lie down after viewing.
Peanut Butter and Jelly...
Bacon and Cheeseburger…
Rum and Coke…
Love and marriage…
The answer is that the sum of both together were greater than each alone. Losing both is what hurts the most, because while we will have more great receivers in the future, we will never again have Pettis and Young or Young and Pettis. They were the perfect compliment to one another.
…And in some parallel universe we also had an extra awesome season of Childs, Young and Pettis.
by Spyder Mayhem on Feb 8, 2011 11:37 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
ying and yang...skywalker and vader...neo and morpheus...
off season…i. am. going. to. go. crazy. …er
"… There are so many times in life that you’re just extremely disappointed and depressed and in the tank and you still have to perform and you still have to rally and you still have to move forward and that’s, to me, the lesson right now. That’s true toughness when you can perform at your best when you just don’t feel like it." Coach Petersen Nov, 2010
So this week's been a real doozy. My wife was nice enough to bequeath me a raging flu that tore me up
It’s called a flu shot available at most drug store and covered by even the cheapest of health insurance. Consider it next year.
I’ll continue reading now, just had to comment on your total lack of responsiblity you have to the rest of to stay healthy!
The last thing we need is to be stuck with Kavan alone for a week or 2!
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
Flu shots are for the old and feeble.
Which is exactly how I felt when I got said flu.
by Drew Roberts on Feb 8, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
flu shots
Are for the wise and able, no flu shot is for dumb and dumber!
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
by Darth Prophet on Feb 8, 2011 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
Who you callin old?
…oh yea, that would be me.
"Boise State football is now a Fargo winter. You know what's coming, and that information does you no good whatsoever". Matt James / The Fresno Bee
My arguement.
Neither, it was all Moore!
it's not that you are stupid, it's just that you don't suspect!
Nothing is good nor bad until compared to something else.
Austin Pettis:
Sure hands- Catch the ball anywhere you throw it and make it look easy type hands
Fade routes- The kind where you can tell the DB he basically has no chance of making a play on it.
Swinging Gate- Troy Oppie disagrees, but I thought they were awesome.
Punt Blocks- Whenever we needed them. Man his hands are amazing.
Somersaults- REPRIMANDED
Titus Young:
Speed- Pure, unadulterated, OMG, speed. He has it. While Drew may not be surprised if he isn’t the fastest at the combine. I’ll be surprised if he runs any slower than a 4.4
Deep Routes- really deep. Bassically as deep as you want to throw it and then about 10 yards deeper.
Return Game- Why was this not thought of Kevan? This is an angle hard to argue with, and Titus was good at it.
The Fumble Recovery- Don’t tell me you’ve forgotten one of the most heads up play of footballery ever witnessed. Ashamed…
Hang Loose Signs- REPRIMANDED
The truth is neither are easily replaced for their own unique reasons. They are not the same, but the combination proved quite fun to watch and almost impossible to cover. Titus required game planning against. Austin was simply unstoppable on go-to plays.
Each without the other is not near as effective, but TITUS, would be the one who can impact the offense. Knowing you have to respect the deep threat keeps safeties from cheating up on the run game. Titus’ abilities gave the opportunity for other parts of the game plan to work. Sure he only caught one or two deep balls a game, if that. But the threat was constantly there, keeping the secondary off the backs, and allowing Pettis to show off his hands. I thought they were both terrific, and Pettis will go down as an All-Time Bronco great. And I truly believe he will bcome a great pro. But Titus’ affect on opposing defensive game plans will be missed.
The truth is, Kellen Moore is going to be able to tell us whether we need to miss either of them or not.
Hurry up Spring!
Championships should be earned on the field, not in newspapers or computers.
by Mikrino on Feb 8, 2011 12:11 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I found it kinda funny that Titus' heir-apparent did the same thing in the bowl game by jumping on Pettis' fumble in the endzone
Sadly, this time the refs disagreed.
by Drew Roberts on Feb 8, 2011 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
The versatility of both will be hard to replace...
Some others…
Pettis:
4-4 passing in 2010.
Amazing display of vertical in recovering onside kicks
Young:
Running threat on end-around (7 career rushing TDs)
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
Ridiculous Hops!
I had not seen that picture before. That is ridiculous! Boy, if I could have been able to jump half that high, I might have been able to excel in Y-Ball. Unfortunately, this white man can’t jump.
"Gandhi didn't take a knee, Martin Luther King didn't take a knee, Thomas Edison didn't take a knee, and I sure as hell am not going to take a knee." -- Dan Hawkins
Who passes now that Pettis is gone?
Chris Potter, I suppose.
"I did not send you to go-kart camp." - Maury Garner
+1
I think Potter will fill in the Pettis role with the trick receiver throws
by MyDadTeachesatBSU on Feb 8, 2011 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
RE: Mikrino
I wanted to argue the Titus Young kicking game angle, but I thought that Drew would have thrown the “Austin Pettis runs the swinging gate and holds for kicks” in my face, as I would have to him. We know each other too well.
"I did not send you to go-kart camp." - Maury Garner
So you think being the placeholder is more missed than a Punt Returner?
I loved the swinging gate as much as anyone can love weird play design and ruthlessly effective 2 point conversions, but give me a punt return TD anyday.
I actually like Pettis the most out of the two, I think he may the first DI-A Bronco player to ascend to a really great NFL career. Although Q-Mike is not doing too bad for himself either. But Titus to me will be more missed.
I look at it with a baseball twist since I played alot of baseball.
When two great players are on a team, which one is more missed in the lineup; the Power-hitter who is the homerun threat. Or the consistent groundball hitter who can put the ball in play and get on base? It’s an easy pick when you look at it like that.
Championships should be earned on the field, not in newspapers or computers.
I don't think it's that cut and dry re: the baseball analogy
I’d rather have an Ichiro in the lineup than a Prince Fielder. ‘Course, that’s just me.
by Drew Roberts on Feb 9, 2011 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Upon further review...
In attempt to separate the two, I went to some BIFFF-like stats to help make a decision. Still too close to call.
PRODUCTION
Both had 71 receptions and amazingly Pettis was targeted 101 times (+1 more to himself) and Titus was thrown to 99 times. Pretty good balance which shows each was an equal focal point of the offense.
The next closest favorite target at WR was Shoemaker who had 50 targets, catching 32.
Hiwat only caught 11 passes in 20 targeted attempts. (although he was 7 of 13 when Kellen was passing)
Potter – 10 targeted with 8 catches, Burroughs – 6 catches, 8 targeted; Burks 6 catches, 7 targeted
advantage: tie
DEEP THREAT
Titus holds the edge in deep balls with 11 plays over 40 yards. Pettis had four (4). Obviously this does not account for the extra attention and double coverage Titus might draw on plays that do not come his way.
Returning wide receivers had a combined three plays over 40 yards. Shoemaker (from Pettis on trick play), Potter (from Southwick in garbage time) and Hiwat (from Moore vs Hawaii) Hiwat seems to be the logical next deep threat, but maybe Burks will be a surprise as well.
advantage: Young
RED ZONE
One of Drew’s most compelling arguments for Pettis was regarding red zone production. This is an area that Boise State has struggled at times, and a big red zone target is hard to replace.
Pettis was targeted 18 times in the red zone with 13 catches for 6 touchdowns. Another five of those catches were for first downs.
Titus had only 8 targets in the redzone. He had 3 catches and no touchdowns. 2 first downs.
If Harsin had called for the fade more often, these numbers could be even more disparate.
The returning WR corps had a combined 5 catches in 14 targets in the red zone. Look to hear a lot from Efaw, Linehan and Paul in the red zone next year.
advantage: Pettis
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
Well that didn't clear anything up
But an A for effort. Good BIFFF stats. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe Pettis held a target advantage over Young the first half of the year and Young closed the gap over the latter half.
"I did not send you to go-kart camp." - Maury Garner
It is pretty scattered...
Through the first six games Young held the target advantage 43-37. (Pettis getting benched after 3 targets in Wyoming didn’t help)
The final six games of the regular season were nearly even with Pettis at 50 and Young at 49.
Pettis held the ultimate advantage after 14 targets in the bowl game to Young’s 7. (Young did have 6 catches with the only miss being the reviewed play in the endzone)
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
How about by Down and by Quarter? Still doesn't do much to distinguish the two...
DOWN
Pettis could hold the “clutch” edge of Titus based on targets on 3rd down
Pettis 18 of 29 for 229 yards on 3rd Down. Titus had about half the targets at 9 of 15 for 141 yds.
Titus put more pressure on defenses on 1st down, probably benefiting from play-action as well
Young, 35 of 52 on 1st down for 670 yds; Pettis, 29 of 40 for 387 yds.
Both were targeted 30 times each on 2nd down and twice on fourth down.
QUARTER
Titus held the edge in being targeted in the first half 77 (58 catches) to 72 (48 catches) for Pettis.
Neither received many intended throws in the 2nd half since most games were blowouts. Amazingly, only 13 of Young’s 71 catches came after halftime.
Titus is your guy to blow the game open and Pettis is the guy you go to in the clutch.
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
Good question Drew very good. Impulse is to jump but one must reflect.
From the standpoint of contribution to team, Austin be the man. However, there are several guys here that can replace him more or less. It will take a while, and no one may ultimately be able to make those acrobatic Berishnikov leaping heroic grabs, but they’ll get close. Titus-no one in Div I could’ve made the Nevada grab-no one. His game speed is scary, even for pro level DBs. We dont have anyone that has that or even approximaiton of it. Him being out there emant every play Ds had to deal with him which freed Austin to do his thing which he did. IMO it was always Titus helping Pettis get open, not the other way around. I’m with Kevan.
tvmunson
There it is again
Which game are you referring to re Nevada? My mind is complete blank. Nothing. Tabula rasa.
by kcam on Feb 8, 2011 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Did I say Nevada? I didn't say Nevada. I've never heard of Nevada. Sounds vaguely Indian. Wait, wasn't that the name
of Sitting Bull’s horse, the one he was riding when he scalped Custer?
tvmunson
"I'm with Kevan". for the same reason-we can replace (almost entirely) what Austin brought.
Austin was like a good, reliable, unflappable bass player, laying down line after line occassionally breaking for a riff. Titus was like some great lead guitarist who shows up drunk, or worse, on occassion, gets lost a time or two, then peals into a solo that makes the universe catch its breath, time/space stopped,multigasmic arppegios that ring to the end of existence.
tvmunson
One p and two g's on arpeggio, dude
We need to talk sometime, munson. My degree from BSU is Guitar Performance.
by kcam on Feb 8, 2011 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I can't play 'em, so why the hell should I know how to play 'em.
42 years, and I’m still working on the 3 chord intro to Louie, Louie. It’s coming along though. I should have you play my custom Bolin semi-hollow body; as the World’s Worst Guitar Player, it fitting I ahve the best guitar in the world. the fret board accroding to Bolin is 40 years old; he wasnt sure.
tvmunson
I knew John many moons ago
He and Dave Boelke were co-luthiers on a few guitars. I believe Dave stopped making guitars and focuses on repair now. Been a while and I haven’t picked up a guitar in a couple years.
John dated or was married to my sister's best friend Becky Baer (sp?). Maybe before his wreck.
tvmunson
I like the analogy, munson
and not just because it began with “I’m with Kevan.” Young’s 2011 season was a singular tour de force of the wide receiver position. Pettis might have Young beat on career consistency, but in the here and now of the continual reloading BSU roster, Young will be harder to replace, in my opinion.
"I did not send you to go-kart camp." - Maury Garner
I think the resolution is this,sorta what you pointed out.
If I positivley absolutely (ref Fed Ex commercial) HAVE to get a 1st. I’m going to Austin. If the money is on the line, I need 60 yards, or a td, its Titus. Both happened. Austin’s 4th down grab in Fiesta II, hobbled by injury, was classic, as was Titus grab in NeverNeverLand.Austin was clutch, Titus was climax, but Titus could come through in the clutch and Austin had his climaxes.
tvmunson
Every band member I've known...
Says that a good bassist is harder to find than a good guitarist. There are a lot of bassists that can keep the beat, but a truly special bassist is rare (such as Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers). I think that based on your argument, Pettis is the one that will be missed the most. Bass and drums are the heart of any band.
I say Pettis because of the fact that other teams could adjust their schemes to cover Young. It didn’t matter who was covering Pettis, or what other teams schemed to keep the ball from him, he would catch it if it was near him. No adjustment quite worked.
Plus, he used to play basketball, and as a former basketball player myself, I’m more than slightly biased.
by ninjamonkey1 on Feb 9, 2011 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe I shoud have said like a reliable bass player, not a Jack Bruce-like star.
Drums are the heart of the band. Bass is reserved for good looking guy with attitude with a sprinkiling of exceptions. Analogy was decent bass, great lead player. Along those lines. And my overall point is Kirby, Hiwat, Burks, Shoe, and probably Miller (havent seen hm much) are all a lot more like Pettis than anyone is like Titus. No one is like titus. We’ll have trouble replacing Austin no doubt, and none may amtch his acorbatics, but they’ll come closer to him than anyone will to Titus ‘cuz no one is remotely like him. BUT I have heard us moan about loss of receivers since ’73, when we lost Don Hutt (Al Marshall before him; yo should have seen him-poetry in motion; I kno its hackneyed but dude was). Of all the positions we maon about. none has so consistently NOT been a problem. I’d even add Austin & Young’s somewhat inauspicious debut versus Washington was deu in part to Tharp. KM’s worked with these guys. If any staff knows how to play the hand its dealt, ours. ALL IN!!!!!!!
tvmunson
Don't get me wrong...
I think that on a scale of 1 to awesome, Titus is a 10, but I’m incredibly biased towards former basketball players so I’m going to keep stubbornly saying that Pettis will be missed more. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
by ninjamonkey1 on Feb 9, 2011 4:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I wish we weren't even having this discussion; I wish we could have kept one or the other.
We won’t be seeing Austin’s level of skill, prowess & leadership again soon. Thank God we got Kellen!
tvmunson
new..er criterion, "ability to turn one's maturity around as an example to many young people?
titus wins this one
and that one ain’t in any BIFFF…
other intagibles they have…?
"… There are so many times in life that you’re just extremely disappointed and depressed and in the tank and you still have to perform and you still have to rally and you still have to move forward and that’s, to me, the lesson right now. That’s true toughness when you can perform at your best when you just don’t feel like it." Coach Petersen Nov, 2010
This is like the Budweiser "Less filling" commercial.
Who’s better, guy you cant cover or guy you cant defend?
cant cover
cant defend
cant cover
cant defend
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc …………………
tvmunson
by tmunson on Feb 8, 2011 1:39 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
potatoe or potato?
maybe you should be evaluating the few negatives that they have;
Titus
- stopped running kickoffs up the middle into the heart of the return teams in his senior year
- didn’t through a pass
- shy’s away from hits which affects which balls he catches
- wasn’t on dancing with the stars
Pettis - no fly sweep runs in the red zone
- doesn’t return punts or kickoffs
- doesn’t have a big smile on his face while running by you
- doesn’t have feet to Salsa dance
The fear should be what happens if neither is affectively replaced?
You say potae-to
and I say potah-to
you say tomae-to
and I say tomah-to
Potae-to, potah-to
Tomae-to, tomah—to
Let’s call in Kevan Lee (from an old GAZETTA)
tvmunson
lets all get along
No doubt both players bring us fond memories and may be the 2 best receivers to ever grace the Blue. Both players are record breakers and I can only imagine how many more stats Young would have if he didn’t miss 10 games in one season and if Kellen Moore was more accurate with a deep ball his sophomore season (Harsin and he worked hard and obviously improved that part of Kellen’s game in the offseason).
Both players have parts of their game that you can’t coach. You can’t coach quickness and Titus has it. Hiwatt and Young can run 50 yards at the same time; but no one runs 5-10 yards faster than Titus and this made him dreadful to defend and why DBs at VT say Titus Young is the fastest player they have faced.
But I will go with Austin Pettis as the WR we will miss the most next year. I don’t see a WR on our roster with the kind of athletic chops that equal an Austin Pettis. His junior year Boise State basically scored in the red zone by throwing a fade to Pettis and his athletic ability enabled him to jump, twist, shout, and catch a ball and get a foot down on a dime if need be. Yes- Shoemaker or Kirby or Burroughs can run a slant, corner, post, or hitch; but none of them can jump 36 inches twist their body and make the catch in traffic like Pettis can. Pettis has something that no other receiver has shown on our roster; Pettis has a double helping of CLUTCH. When it is fourth and 1 in a BCS game where is the ball thrown? That’s right- to a broken ankle Austin Pettis. When it is third and mid range and you need a guy over the middle against VT who is going to take the hit, make the catch and show the ball to the defender? That’s right— Austin Pettis. Need someone to make a red zone TD catch against VT— Austin Pettis. Going for it on 4th and short in the Maaco Bowl? Throw it to Austin Pettis who is covered by Utah’s best corner who is projected to be in the NFL (Burton) and what happens- Austin goes up high; gets the ball and with one hand holds the ball away from the defender and uses his other hand to push the defender away and get the first down. Austin Pettis is CLUTCH and he has skills that will be missed more than the speed of Titus Young.
I think Drew must have won the coin flip and was able to choose first in this round-table because Austin Pettis and his athletic ability, his leadership, and his clutchness will be missed the most in 2011.
by flyfishferg on Feb 8, 2011 3:28 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Well said, flyfishferg...
And I’m not just saying that because you agreed with me. Well, actually I am a little bit.
Love them both, I'm on the fence.
They will both be incredible missed off and on all season. There will be times when the younger guys step up and make some great catches, and everything will feel right in the world. Then there will be that 50 yarder down field that gets dropped and well will miss #1 more at that time. Then we will go for it on a 4th and 3, and a great pass will get dropped and at that moment #2 will be missed most.
If the younger guy’s step it up and like Coach Pete will expect then they will both be missed equally but we will have new great WR’s that we will start to love just as much. Like the new puppy you get to replace the old dog that went to doggy heaven. You miss the one you lost but you are very excited to have the new one.
One more thought. We still have the Muscle Hamster. He is going to make the DB’s feel like leaving the game early "Cutler Style"
"Every Damn Day."- Coach Pete
Pettis was great, but....
TYs are few, and far between. Speed is one thing. Speed and elusiveness is a whole differnt story.
"Boise State football is now a Fargo winter. You know what's coming, and that information does you no good whatsoever". Matt James / The Fresno Bee
Having two WRs
that you have to double makes the offense roll.
I liked Pettis better. TY did lots of dumb things here. Glad to see him grow up, rooting for him in the NFL, but if he had his crap together he strings together four solid years, and we don’t have a debate here.
Like them both, but give AP the knod.
Additionally, I was a big Childs fan. If he comes back for his SR year (and doesn’t miss bowl games), he would have some of these records too.
Imagine Kellen’s Soph season with Childs, Pettis and Young?
I was Child's fan too. his catch in Ore I, with 3 defenders on him-in background you can see Ore asst coach
double over in frustration.
tvmunson
This DAWG fan says Pettis
I’m only basing this on the VTU game, but man what an impressive receiver! I loved the way he competes for the football.
We just lost a receiver that’s kinda like that.
At any rate, GO DAWGS! and y’all will be seeing me here for the next 6 months.
I’m not real big on trollin’ and my Mom lives in Boise.
Lookin forward to the College Football Talk.
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2012 Boise State Football Schedule
@ Michigan State  |
Fri 08/31 | 6:00 p.m. MT |
| Miami (OH) | Sat 09/15 | 2:00 p.m. MT |
| BYU |
Thu 09/20 | TBA |
| @ New Mexico | Sat 09/29 | TBA |
| @ Southern Miss | Sat 10/06 | TBA |
| Fresno State | Sat 10/13 | 1:30 p.m. MT |
| UNLV | Sat 10/20 | 1:30 p.m. MT |
| @ Wyoming |
Sat 10/27 | 1:30 p.m. MT |
| San Diego State | Sat 11/03 | 8:30 p.m. MT |
| @ Hawaii | Sat 11/10 | 5:00 p.m. MT |
| Colorado St. | Sat 11/17 | 1:30 p.m. MT |
| @ Nevada | Sat 12/1 | TBA |
