Why didn't Boise State play for the touchdown on its final drive, and other burning questions
by Kevan Lee on Nov 14, 2011 12:00 PM PST
in Boise State football
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There were many pressing questions following Boise State's loss to TCU on Saturday, including "Why, God, why?" and "Where are the Candid Cameras? This can't be happening again." There were also some football-related questions and some second-guessing, centered mostly on Boise State's final drive. With a somewhat level head and a loosey-goosey grip on perspective, I take a shot at some answers that might serve a purpose in figuring out where this Bronco team goes from here. The first among those:
Why didn't Boise State play for the touchdown on its final drive?
Answer: Coach Pete thought Dan Goodale could make a 39-yard field goal.
"I think you're playing percentages and odds right there. Do you try to throw one in from about 30 yards? Or are you going to try and make a field goal? That's what we thought our best chance was."
Keep in mind that the Broncos did not need a touchdown to win; they only needed a field goal. So after taking over at the 35 after the hometown pass interference call, Boise State gained 13 more yards to turn an impossible 52-yard field goal into a makeable 39-yard field goal. And Coach Pete thought Dan Goodale would make it.
Question: What would have given him that idea? No one trusts Dan Goodale.
Answer: Goodale had been kicking well in practice.
Though the walk-on has been hit-or-miss (or shank) this season so much so that Boise State's modus operandi on fourth down in opponent territory is to go for out without even thinking twice, his practice performance won over the coaching staff.
"He's been kicking pretty well in practice and we thought he could make it ... He has been making progress and he's got a strong leg, he really does, and it was lined up right in the middle."
Goodale's previous big-game kicking experience was a fourth quarter field goal against Air Force, which he made. He had been perfect on all five PATs in this game. If you're a Bronco coach who sees him make field goals all day in practice, why wouldn't you trust him with in that spot?
Question: But the kick wasn't even close!
Answer: And herein lies the lesson: It may time for Bronco coaches to place less importance on the practice performance of their kickers.
We had this conversation last year when Kyle Brotzman missed against Nevada and Boise State recruited a kicking lifer in Jake Van Ginkel. Do kickers come with a certain level of clutch? I think the opposite may be true. Some kickers cannot handle big-game situations.
I appreciate that the Broncos had faith in Goodale to make the field goal, and now that he's missed, I believe we will see a different type of late-game strategy in the next close game. The Boise State offense will press harder for more yards or a touchdown, and the field goal will be a last resort, not the Plan A.
Your turn
What is your take on Boise State's late-game drive? Do you think Boise State made the right call to play for the field goal? What would you do next time? Share your thoughts in the comments.
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Good call...
He was drilling the PATs all game and getting good lift. Combined with his good practices I totally understand why they put him in. You gotta take that chance sometime… I do wish they had given him more game experience in previous weeks…. they go for it on fourth all year long which is basically telling Goodale “I don’t trust you” and then throw him in for the biggest kick of his life… that is the only thing I don’t like…
by lifelongbronco on Nov 14, 2011 12:08 PM PST reply actions
However...
I do think they should have taken one more shot at the end zone instead of running that run play to set up the kick…
by lifelongbronco on Nov 14, 2011 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
I don't have any issue with trying to kick the field goal
I don’t think they even needed to try for a TD. The one that that surprised me was why not try and get the ball closer for the FG attempt? BSU had 21 seconds left and a time out. Give Kellen at least one more shot to gain some yards. You have the opportunity to use the whole field, even if they don’t pick up the first down. You can use the sideline to try and pick up a first down and stop the clock or use the middle of the field and then use your time out.
"All we can do is win the games on our schedule" - Coach Pete
by givemesomemoore on Nov 14, 2011 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly....
that’s what got me. A FG attempt was the right call in my opinion, just not at the time they did.
It was 1st down with :20 left and a timeout when they let the clock run down to a second or two and kicked it from 39 yards instead of 35-25 yards…
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." -The Dude
"If you're always worried that something could blow up on you, you're not going to push the envelope and not going to try new things. Some of the stuff does blow up on us, but the tradeoff is the problems we're creating for defenses when it works." -Chris Petersen
by BroncoInDuckLand on Nov 14, 2011 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
agreed...
I do wish they had given him more game experience in previous weeks
The kick is the right call, but the curious part to me is why the sudden confidence in Goodale. The Broncos had passed up several kicks of this length earlier in the season only to go for it on fourth down. I had thought earlier in the year they had opportunity to give Goodale some reps to gain confidence. Nothing can simulate the nerves of a last second kick, but at least prior game attempts would give a better indication of his likelihood for success.
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
by MKingery on Nov 14, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
He definitely needed more game time reps under his belt, whether or not the game is on the line.
Not sure this is the answer or not ...
… but I wonder if the coaches really didn’t trust him early on and now finally did. He missed PATs on his own early in the year and he didn’t get many FG tries because of it. Coach Pete said “he has been making progress,” which means to me that the coaches believed in him more now than they had before. He had a shot in the Air Force game and made it. He didn’t have any chances against UNLV. If he was just good enough to gain BSU coaches’ trust in the last month, I could see where it’d be hard to get him the game experience he needed.
Anyway, just a thought.
"Never let anyone sign your checks." - Harvey Bushkin
Good point
His PATs certainly have looked better in recent weeks and there was mention that he had cleaned up some mechanics. All said, I still would like to see BSU try for ten more yards even in Jan Stenerud was their kicker.
"It's hardly a groundbreaking thought, but defeat is when you know you're a fan. It's easy to clap and cheer when a team wins, but when they lose, that's when you know if you care or not." - Craig Robinson
my only issue is that there are more than two choices.
It isn’t kick a 39 yard field goal or go for a touchdown. With 21 seconds and a timeout you can run two plays maybe netting 15 yards to set up a 24 yard firld goal. I know there are riskes involved (sacks, turnovers, dumb time management) but you have the timeout in hand and the smartest QB in the game taking snaps. Anyways, it is all said and done now so I am putting it behind me and gearing up for SDSU!
The Bulldogs had no answers, so they called timeout. And at that moment, every single person in the stadium knew that Georgia was in over its head. It was instant singularity of Boise State's greatness.
-Kevan Lee
by TooMuchYoung on Nov 14, 2011 12:12 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I agree...
…they didn’t have to go for the endzone immediately. They burned one down just to center the ball. I’d have rather seen that down used to make another play. Drew Wright was looking damn good on that drive before the ball popped out. Maybe redemption would have been a running touchdown or another first down. That or else you give Kellen another chance to win. If I have to choose between putting the game into a Heisman candidate’s hands vs a freshman kicker that has struggled all season, I’m going to choose the Heisman candidate.
My Saturday night nightmares that kept me from sleeping:
Was it the kicking or the fumble? No. It was this:
I kept seeing double-move after double-move, with the combination of TCU’s last 2-pt conversion … so close to us knocking it down.
"Everyone counted us out. I don't know why they keep doing that." -- Kyle Wilson
"It takes no talent to give great effort." | "We’re not going to play to the outside noise." -- Chris Petersen
"[Kellen] Moore is a walking Staples® button." -- Ivan Maisel
Agreed.
The long passes made by TCU made it a game.
Almost no one gets a 60+ yard TD pass, let alone 3 in one game. Add in the fourth one for about 30 yards and it becomes even worse. If we don’t get burnt on those this game is a win.
So now the real question; Was it bad DB play or the lack of pressure on Pachall?
I’d say both.
"But Boise State is good. Really good. And not just the quarterback, their defense is good. And they deserve to be where they are..." - Vince Dooley, former Georgia Coach and AD
Yes it is both...
The D-line was not getting any penetration and they were rarely blizting effectively.
On the first TD, I believe Taylor was blitzing off of the opposite corner and was picked up, leaving everyone else in single coverage. Makinde bit on the double move and had no help.
If we weren’t blitzing on the others, where is the safety help? It seemed like Febis and later Stanaway were too shallow even after getting beat over the top. There were times we had Shea McClelling covering the back on a deep wheel route. I have to give a nod to Patterson for recognizing schemes BSU would use and capitalize on matchups and over-agression.
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
Correct.
Byron Hout was the cover guy that got blown on the 3rd TD pass. Even Gerald Alexander said it; After you’ve been burnt on a double move, you should play everything deep and keep it in front of you. Definitely something TCU saw on film.
"But Boise State is good. Really good. And not just the quarterback, their defense is good. And they deserve to be where they are..." - Vince Dooley, former Georgia Coach and AD
Hightower was third TD
Are you saying Hout had deep coverage responsibilities? I’ll have to watch it again.
"Never let anyone sign your checks." - Harvey Bushkin
Hout
Hout’s coverage on the wheel route could have gone for a score if the back hadn’t fallen down.
Taylor Martinez sets the art of throwing a football back 100 years.
Yes, because it struck me immediately.
I turned to my wife and said “Why is Hout deep on that play?”.
He was the deepest defender and the closest one on the play to make a tackle.
"But Boise State is good. Really good. And not just the quarterback, their defense is good. And they deserve to be where they are..." - Vince Dooley, former Georgia Coach and AD
Bad DB play...
Sure the D-line could have gotten pressure on those plays… but would it have really mattered? I mean all he needed was 2-3 seconds and the WRs already had the DBs biting and burned deep. He could have thrown the ball anywhere in the vicinity of the receivers and they would have still scored on them… I don’t know that on any of those long pass plays penetration would have really mattered unless they got in the backfield in 1.5 seconds…
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." -The Dude
"If you're always worried that something could blow up on you, you're not going to push the envelope and not going to try new things. Some of the stuff does blow up on us, but the tradeoff is the problems we're creating for defenses when it works." -Chris Petersen
by BroncoInDuckLand on Nov 14, 2011 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
On those plays particularly isn't where pressure was necessarily important.
Continuous pressure to start the game would have made him start rushing his throws, possibly overthrowing those guys later on. They never really made him hurry.
"But Boise State is good. Really good. And not just the quarterback, their defense is good. And they deserve to be where they are..." - Vince Dooley, former Georgia Coach and AD
Would have thought
that with us stopping their running game and our secondary getting torched, the coaches would have given more safety support to those youn DB’s…
what
What would people be saying/writing if they had gone for the TD and been stopped at the end of the game?
“Why would you not go for a 39-yard field goal!?! It’s not like the kick would have been a 50-yarder!”
True in most cases BUT
Our field goal kicking is truly the worst is CFB. Nationally there would have been a ton of second guessing but locally Bronco Nation would always back a choice to leave the ball in Kellen’s hands…
The Bulldogs had no answers, so they called timeout. And at that moment, every single person in the stadium knew that Georgia was in over its head. It was instant singularity of Boise State's greatness.
-Kevan Lee
by TooMuchYoung on Nov 14, 2011 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
I don't even think nationally anyone would have second guessed it.
Everyone knew we had struggled on field goals and PATs. Why wouldn’t you put the game in the hands of your Heisman candidate? With one TO and 20+ seconds to go you can take at least one shot. But bottom line is, defensive front didn’t get enough pressure and the DBs got worked.
Elway is in, Zimm is in, Little is FINALLY in but don't forget: Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater & Terrel Davis
by BlueNOrangeNIdaho on Nov 14, 2011 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
I don't have a problem with going for a FG on the last play of the game
But I wish the second to last play had been about making a shorter kick.
I don't believe in dibs, or love at first sight, or love, or best friends, or doing things.
Shorter kick???
Would you have preferred a 26 yarder? I don’t think distance was the issue, he missed it by a mile…
by BornInBoise1980 on Nov 14, 2011 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
the way you kick a 39 yarder as opposed to a 26 yarder
is completely different…when you need to power through a longer field goal it really does change the approach. Also from a mental standpoint a 26 yarder is a lot different from a season long attempt.
The Bulldogs had no answers, so they called timeout. And at that moment, every single person in the stadium knew that Georgia was in over its head. It was instant singularity of Boise State's greatness.
-Kevan Lee
by TooMuchYoung on Nov 15, 2011 2:10 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I don't mind the Field Goal attempt as much as the play calling leading up to it.
1st down we clocked the ball.
2nd down a short pass to the sideline.
3rd down run to the center to setup the FG.
4th missed field goal.
It just felt like we were playing for the field goal. With the clocked stopped for moving the chains we didn’t have to clock the ball on 1st down. And we should not have played a ball to the sidelines which caused us used our 3rd down to center the ball. We took 3 plays and two timeouts to net 3 yards.
On 4th and 5 our best chance was a field goal and the right call, but the play calling leading up to the field goal was not all that great.
Out of those four plays ...
… if I have any problems, it’s with the spike on first down. That’s a wasted down. I think if Bronco coaches regretted any decision in that drive it would be the spike.
"Never let anyone sign your checks." - Harvey Bushkin
Nope
With the way Boise State has been going for it on 4th downs, going for the TD would have been the consistent strategy
The one play that I can't shake is the 2-point conversion
That was a huge “this is the ball-game” moment and we had it stopped. Game of inches. The TCU receiver caught the ball on the 2 and QEB had a great opportunity to make a nice solid tackle and that is the ballgame, Bronco’s win! Asking Moore to score a TD with 1:04 left on the clock is doable but would have been miraculous. Asking Goodale to kick a 39 yard game winner given his pedigree is doable but would have been miraculous. Even the fumble by Wright doesn’t really qualify as a “this is the game” moment because I think the run brought up a third and 2 which we would have needed to convert and the defense could have stopped TCU from scoring on that last drive.
The Bulldogs had no answers, so they called timeout. And at that moment, every single person in the stadium knew that Georgia was in over its head. It was instant singularity of Boise State's greatness.
-Kevan Lee
munsun'd is=in
The Bulldogs had no answers, so they called timeout. And at that moment, every single person in the stadium knew that Georgia was in over its head. It was instant singularity of Boise State's greatness.
-Kevan Lee
Kick not the problem
There were other issues, unfortunately for Dan he was the last hope at a win and he missed. How many times did the secondary miss opportunities to make a play? 2 on TCU’s last drive alone. Drew’s fumble, another missed opportunity. Boise has not shown confidence in Goodale all year and now he gets put in this situation, not his fault, he gave it his best and missed, so what. Why didn’t we run one more play and try to get him closer instead of putting him in the middle of the field? I still love Boise and everything they represent, I think players and coaches missed opportunities to get a win but that is football. Boise is still one of the best teams in that nation, 1 loss does not eliminate that fact. They will not get a BCS bowl this year but an 8-4 big East team will….as long as the system stays broken teams like BSU will get left out in the cold. Hats off to TCU for doing what no team has done in a long time, the go for 2 mentality at the end of that game reminded me of BSU-Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl, lets win it or lose it right now. Gutsy football can pay off, and did for TCU :-)
Does BSU have an actual kicking coach on staff?
"Kellen Moore has shown the difference between best in the SEC & and best in the Nation" - pjohn56
No.
"But Boise State is good. Really good. And not just the quarterback, their defense is good. And they deserve to be where they are..." - Vince Dooley, former Georgia Coach and AD
They have a special teams coach ...
… which is more than a lot of schools can say.
"Never let anyone sign your checks." - Harvey Bushkin
Hopefully someone finally gets this through their heads...
… it’s not Goodale’s fault. I’m starting to suspect his shanks all season haven’t been his fault, but the holders.
WATCH THE REPLAY if you can bring yourself to. The holder, number 21, holds LACES IN!!!
Anyone who knows kicking and for that much anyone that’s ever watched Ace Ventura should know that the laces should always be OUT!!
I want to see anyone out there that is blaming Goodale or the coaches for going for the field goal go out and try and kick a 39-yard field goal when you kick the laces.
I would bet that at least 9 out of 10 times you miss. These are 18 – 23 year olds. I’m wouldn’t doubt that the professionals would miss over 50% when kicking with the laces in.
Enough said. End rant. GO BRONCOS! Beat the Aztecs!
I can't bring myself to watch the replay, so I'll have to take your word for it
The holder is No. 25 Hunter White
"Never let anyone sign your checks." - Harvey Bushkin
I hate to disagree...
… but I hope someone else will confirm it as I’ve deleted the game from my DVR. I’m about 95% sure that the holder’s number was number 21 which the roster has listed as Malcolm Johnson.
Can anyone else confirm?
by BroncoBrad86 on Nov 14, 2011 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
I can confirm that Johnson is out for the year with an ACL injury
and that Hunter White has held since Week Three. I can’t say for sure who it was on the final kick, though.
"Never let anyone sign your checks." - Harvey Bushkin
First text I received as I was walking back to my car...
“LACES OUT”
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
Watched Goodale's expression as he watched the ball sail right.
Completely surprised. He looked down at his foot like “WTF?”
Tells you it felt true to him.
"But Boise State is good. Really good. And not just the quarterback, their defense is good. And they deserve to be where they are..." - Vince Dooley, former Georgia Coach and AD
https://twitter.com/#!/murphsturph/status/136225715938000896
wow.
"And don't you think it sounds stupid, When some one's treated different cause there not the same as me or you?"
"As time passes by, regrets for the rest of my life."
"I want it, I need it, Revenge is dripping from my teeth."
"Everywhere we turn more hatred surrounds us."
"Too many talk down on things they don't know."
-A7X
by Ihavenofriendzz on Nov 14, 2011 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
Inches???
That thing missed by a mile…
by BornInBoise1980 on Nov 14, 2011 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
So you're saying...
It would have been dead center if the hold was better? In warm-ups before the game he missed 3 of 4 from 40 yards, all three wide right. Did he set the ball on the holder laces in?
by BornInBoise1980 on Nov 14, 2011 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
By inches, red was referring to the hold (see the pictures)
I don't believe in dibs, or love at first sight, or love, or best friends, or doing things.
I say
that we hold an OBNUG kicking competition. See who the best FG kicker is here on OBNUG.
I’ll go ahead and vote myself the winner =)
I've kicked a 30 yarder in oxfords...
Then again I wasn’t rushing to get it off before a defender flies into me
by BSUbluNorange on Nov 15, 2011 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
As I already stated earlier on another post;
The kick did not lose the game. The Broncos were losing before the FG. Goodale had the chance to win for Boise State, not lose.
The fumble, and resulting TD drive by TCU put them behind.
To answer the why not play for a TD question; If it’s me, I’m going touchdown all the way until there’s 3 seconds left. In defense of Coach Pete, the passing was very poor in the last minute. Maybe the kick looked like the better option, since we were relying on shaky PI calls.
"But Boise State is good. Really good. And not just the quarterback, their defense is good. And they deserve to be where they are..." - Vince Dooley, former Georgia Coach and AD
I'm not upset that we went for the fg.
I’m upset at HOW we went for the fg. Still think you at least run a play on 3rd down and not tell kellen to run and fall over. pass it and TRY to get the first, or heck, just run left and end up in the middle and possibly get a 1st down. We still had a timeout. I just felt like we didn’t TRY. Just the 3rd down play to set up a straight fg shot, just seemed like we were laying down and conceding defeat.
"And don't you think it sounds stupid, When some one's treated different cause there not the same as me or you?"
"As time passes by, regrets for the rest of my life."
"I want it, I need it, Revenge is dripping from my teeth."
"Everywhere we turn more hatred surrounds us."
"Too many talk down on things they don't know."
-A7X
by Ihavenofriendzz on Nov 14, 2011 1:05 PM PST reply actions
I'm not saying I disagree, but here's another side ...
… if you take a shot on third down and miss, you’re left with a field goal from the right hash, which isn’t preferable. Bronco coaches must know the percentages of Goodale from straight on vs. Goodale from the right, and I bet it’s a big difference.
… if you hand it off, are you going to give it to Drew Wright who fumbled his last carry? Your other RB option is Mitch Burroughs who fumbled earlier in the game.
Again, I’m not disagreeing. I think a more aggressive playcall was definitely an option. But I don’t fault Boise State’s coaches for choosing the say they did.
"Never let anyone sign your checks." - Harvey Bushkin
What what about a pass?
Pass left to Shoe for a couple of yards. Quick slant anyone?
Though Kellen played a great game, he looked out of it at the end.
"But Boise State is good. Really good. And not just the quarterback, their defense is good. And they deserve to be where they are..." - Vince Dooley, former Georgia Coach and AD
Glad it wasn't just me.
Seems like lead too far on several slants. He seemed a little less confident at the end of the game than usual. TCU was getting pretty gone penetration all game.
by Rand McNalley on Nov 14, 2011 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
Doug Martin was in for the entire last drive, so he was on option...
…not sure how effective he would have been. He did go out in a pass pattern a couple of times, but mainly stayed in for protection or outlet receiver.
I would liked to have seen a bubble screen to Miller who is sure handed. Still would have ended up in the middle of the field, but would have had the opportunity to break it for more yards. (and yes risk a potential fumble)
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
Martin never looked full speed...
He alternated reps with the first team during pre-game warmups but never showed any burst or full change of direction.
My guess is that he was in that final series because he is much better at pass protection than Drew Wright.
"It's hardly a groundbreaking thought, but defeat is when you know you're a fan. It's easy to clap and cheer when a team wins, but when they lose, that's when you know if you care or not." - Craig Robinson
I actually saw him on a few other occasions...
I remember looking for him on the sidelines earlier in the game and when I looked down he was running off the field… I think it was after an extra point… or maybe a touchdown… don’t remember for sure though
by lifelongbronco on Nov 14, 2011 7:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Let's just put it this way
at the end of the game, based on our special teams all season, mostly the kicking aspect. We had a better chance of scoring a TD than making a 35+yd fg. and 35yds isn’t even very far. So, basically, whether he was left right or middle, I saw our chances of making it as slim to begin with. Sure, maybe I need more “faith” in our kicking game. I haven’t seen him in practice and I don’t know how he’s improved, but when you have one of, if not the, best qb in the nation, you don’t just settle for a fg with 20 seconds left.
"And don't you think it sounds stupid, When some one's treated different cause there not the same as me or you?"
"As time passes by, regrets for the rest of my life."
"I want it, I need it, Revenge is dripping from my teeth."
"Everywhere we turn more hatred surrounds us."
"Too many talk down on things they don't know."
-A7X
by Ihavenofriendzz on Nov 14, 2011 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
I hear you ...
… the problem with that is Bronco coaches felt Boise State had a better chance with the field goal than with going for the TD. Obviously, hindsight proved that wrong, but at the time, that’s what was leading their decision-making.
"Never let anyone sign your checks." - Harvey Bushkin
or heck
run hedrick left. he’s quick and wouldn’t just fall down backwards losing yards.
"And don't you think it sounds stupid, When some one's treated different cause there not the same as me or you?"
"As time passes by, regrets for the rest of my life."
"I want it, I need it, Revenge is dripping from my teeth."
"Everywhere we turn more hatred surrounds us."
"Too many talk down on things they don't know."
-A7X
by Ihavenofriendzz on Nov 14, 2011 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
even though
I don’t think he even played at all…
"And don't you think it sounds stupid, When some one's treated different cause there not the same as me or you?"
"As time passes by, regrets for the rest of my life."
"I want it, I need it, Revenge is dripping from my teeth."
"Everywhere we turn more hatred surrounds us."
"Too many talk down on things they don't know."
-A7X
by Ihavenofriendzz on Nov 14, 2011 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
Even if you do run it, toward the middle of the field, you don’t know if the runner’s momentum will take them further toward the other hash.
I’d rather not see the spike on the first down. The clock stops for the chains to be set and I think another play could have been run without too much time running off. That or just burn a timeout there and attempt the field goal with 0 timeouts left.
I too didn't like the Idea of clocking the ball,
But we defiantly needed to save a timeout to get the FG team on the field and not to rush the attempt.
They were out of timeouts...
They called a timeout after the pass to Miller to stop the clock at :21 and called a timeout after Kellen kneeled in the middle of the field to set up the field goal. They used the first timeout on defense early in the 3rd quarter.
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
That's why I say pass it.
Either you hit your target or sail it into endzone and stop the clock on the incompletion.
"But Boise State is good. Really good. And not just the quarterback, their defense is good. And they deserve to be where they are..." - Vince Dooley, former Georgia Coach and AD
It surprised me this coaching staff didn't learn their lesson with kickers from last year.
I don’t get paid the big $$$ to make those calls, so it’s time to suck up & deal. The game that never happened, part two.
"Boise State football is now a Fargo winter. You know what's coming, and that information does you no good whatsoever". Matt James / The Fresno Bee
by blue4areason on Nov 14, 2011 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
What's the percentage that Drew Wright fumbles on back to back carries?
Pretty low I’d guess. Just sayin’
I Would Add Something Worthy To This Thread But I'm Still On Suicide Watch
I’m taking ginger tablets. I’ll be fine.
And that's another Bronco... FIRST DOWN!!
I'd like to see some more FG attempts in non critical moments
I think it’s unfair to trot Goodale out there for a game winning field goal with everything on the line when he has only had 3 attempts all season.
I’d like to see some field goal attempts in the 2nd half of a game that is not close. As well as he has been kicking, seeing your team repeatedly go for it on 4th down all season has to have an impact on a kicker.
by Nick Kroes on Nov 14, 2011 1:18 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Boise needs more than a week
Boise has shown that they can beat most teams with weeks to prepare and trick plays. It gets alot harder to win when you don’t have lots of time to prepare and have the refs bail you out.
by Bisquick_in_da_MGM on Nov 14, 2011 1:21 PM PST reply actions
I don't think that's an issue
Unless more than a week means that injured players would be ready to go.
I don’t think there’s an issue with Boise State’s strategy week to week.
Huh?
"But Boise State is good. Really good. And not just the quarterback, their defense is good. And they deserve to be where they are..." - Vince Dooley, former Georgia Coach and AD
Our Bisquick Buddy is a Bama troll
He knows whereof he speaks. Remember how his kicker won the game against LSU?
Oh . . . wait.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they, too, have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexations to the spirit.
So I guess Bama's kicker needed a whole season to prepare for LSU?
Because that was the worst kicking performance I’ve seen since Kaeding’s meltdown against the Jets.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Gators // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
I'd cut Alabama's kicker some slack
The failed FG tries were from 50, 49 and 44 yards. Those aren’t chip shots.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/playbyplay?gameId=313090333&period=0
I don't believe in dibs, or love at first sight, or love, or best friends, or doing things.
You'd think at some point that Saban would stop trusting his kicker, though.
Sort of like how Coach Pete has placed almost no trust in Goodale.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Gators // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
And Bama's kicker also missed a 29-yarder against Mississippi State, IIRC.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Gators // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
Practice performance doesn't always correlate to "game" results.
I was a swim coach for 30 + years in my former life, and I can give you 100’s of examples of kids who were “lights out” practice guys, but never came close to replicating this under high-pressure competitive circumstances. I also had guys who couldn’t train worth a bw, but seemed to always come through under pressure. Sadly, Goodale sounds like one of the “great practice, no game” guys. To make matters worse, he had never before been placed in the position he was in at the end of the TCU game at any point earlier in the season. Also, this wouldhav been his longest FG attempt of the year. I was surprised that Coach Pete didn’t at least try to gain a few more yards before trotting Goodale out there. If the attempt had at least been within what he had made before, it would have helped.
Three things were working against Goodale which made this kick damn near impossible to make:
- he’s a practice, but not a game performer
- he had never before been in this “end of game” situation
- he was faced with making the longest attempt of his career
As I stated many weeks ago, I will never understand the rationale behind redshirting Van Ginkel.
I couldn't agree more...
Why did they even recruit Van Ginkel if they intend to let Goodale play? Are they thinking he stick around until his redshirt senior year and play one season?
by BornInBoise1980 on Nov 14, 2011 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
I can only surmise that the Broncos wanted all 4 years of Van Ginkel in the "post-Kellen" era.
Van Ginkel will assuredly be the Broncos’ kicker for the next 4 years. I think the coaching staff felt they could survive with Goodale this year, due to the advantage of having Moore under center. Unfortunately, this gamble didn’t pan out.
I wonder if Van Ginkel just isn't up to ncaa speed yet.
Just because you can kick a 55yd field goal in high school doesn’t means you can do it in college with less time and probably one less step.
Coaches don’t seem to care about redshirts for anyone else, I would expect if he could cut it he would be playing.
I also wonder if Harmon or Brad Elkin couldn’t do a better job than Goodale.
by ce'sped azul on Nov 14, 2011 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
I agree - I think if they thought VG was ready, they would have burned his red shirt
I don't believe in dibs, or love at first sight, or love, or best friends, or doing things.
Right ...
… if you want the reason for Goodale over JVG, we’ve been told. Goodale is better than JVG in practice.
Whether you believe that or not is up to you.
"Never let anyone sign your checks." - Harvey Bushkin
When in the history of sports has a coach ever misled the press or fans?
Wait … don’t answer that.
I don't believe in dibs, or love at first sight, or love, or best friends, or doing things.
Key words: in practice.
In games, I think by now, we would ALL rather have Van Ginkel.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Gators // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
If VG couldn't beat out Goodale, they wasted a scholly on that dude.
Coaches seemed to have placed too much stock in practice performance all year. It became obvious early in the season that Goodale is a below-average “game” kicker. Place kickers need to be handled much differently than regular position players. It may be time for BSU to bring in a PK-ing “consultant” on at least a part-time basis to handle these guys. I’ll bet Nick Saban would agree with this, based on the Tide’s PK-ing debacle in the LSU game.
We didn't need a 55 yarder...
We needed a 26 yarder last year and a 39 yarder Saturday. Its not a matter of leg strength its a matter of accuracy and game pressure.
by BornInBoise1980 on Nov 14, 2011 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
Didn't they learn anything last year?
This is why I really question the coaching…
by BornInBoise1980 on Nov 14, 2011 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
I was really surpised
BSU didn’t attempt a 2 point conversion in this game. They ran them constantly last year and hardly at all this year. I thought this was the game they would break out the 2 point conversions.
"All we can do is win the games on our schedule" - Coach Pete
by givemesomemoore on Nov 14, 2011 2:02 PM PST reply actions
Virginia Tech drive...
Remember that? Remember how we did that, alternating sideline, middle of the field, multiple receivers? That is what I expected to see but this time it looked like we tried near the same thing 3 out of 4 passes. The ball went one way and the receiver another twice, which is very unusual. The only play TCU effectively took away all day was the screen…lots of other choices and I thought we were a little conservative there.
But I do believe the FG was the way to go once it came down to 3rd and 5, 20 secs and one time out. Had it been 2nd down, we could have gone to the end zone one more time, but with one chance, Coach Pete decided to give our kicker the best position possible. Standard procedure. Doug Martin was probably out there as a very experienced but hurt decoy, otherwise I have to believe he would have taken the centering handoff and who knows what would have happened.
Van Ginkel, Frisina and Goodale were even up at the start of practice and a decision had not been made. I gotta believe that if there was a clear difference for Van Ginkel, he would have been the man…too important a skill to not pick the best guy. Goodale won the job, VG red shirts. Please tell me I am right…please.
I don't agree with the percentages...
on third and 5 why not go with a short pass.
70% chance of getting 7-15 yards closer making it an easier field goal. Low odds we complete a 30 yard touchdown, but possible.
30% chance of having a 40 yarder from the right hash to win the game if you don’t complete it.
If you aren’t comfortable with having him kick a 40 yarder from the right hash, how much more confident are you having him kick it from the middle, and is this worth giving up a chance at a touchdown or getting even closer.
by ce'sped azul on Nov 14, 2011 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
I think letting Goodale kick WOULD have been the right call....
if we didn’t go for it on fourth down so many times this season to date. Like others have said, that sends a message that Coach Pete doesn’t trust Goodale. Not a surprise that in his one clutch situation, Goodale failed.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Gators // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
Coach Pete was confident he could make a 39 yarder from the center of the field...
but not confident he could make it from the right hash. Even more doubt for Goodale in my mind.
by ce'sped azul on Nov 14, 2011 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Let your best player determine the game.
Kellen Moore. Period. End of story. Does anyone think with 21 seconds and time out left he couldn’t have made this a Heisman moment. At the very least a 20 yard field goal.
Hard to question a coaching staff with this kind of success but I guess I just did.
Mr. Clutch
Others have said it and it can’t be overstated. What continues to baffle me more than anything is, not only do you have THE best, most efficient QB in the entire FBS, he is even BETTER in pressure situations. I mean, NO ONE is better with everything on the line. NO ONE. But you’re going to take the ball out of his hands and put it on the right foot of Goodale, a kicker where every PAT is an adventure?!? REALLY??!?!?!?
Great thread...
lots of valid points and observations. Most everything I have thought about has been mentioned. Except one. The coaches were too concerned about just “eating up the clock” on the next to last Bronco drive. The monotonous play calling of dive “wright” or slant “wright” was too predictable. Everyone on earth knew who was going to get the ball when Wright fumbled. I had just said to my wife that we should not continue to simply hand off to him each time, because it becomes a game of “tackle the man with the ball” instead of football.
The clock only matters when 1) you are only one score ahead of your opponent and you don’t have confidence in your team’s ability to score again, so you play “not to lose” instead of playing to win, or arguably 2) you don’t want to pile on a badly losing opponent. Play your game and the refs will let you know when the game is over.
All year BSU has finished games by repeatedly handing off to Wright. That is ok when the game is out of reach, but when you are playing a team who can score early and often, it is not a great way to try to bleed the clock and hope nothing goes wrong. In the past, BSU has won close games with aggressive creative play calling and I did not see that in the last 4 minutes of this game.
it was working though.
If Wright doesn’t fumble it brings up, if memory serves, a 3rd and 2, I have no doubt we would have thrown a pass for the 1st down and if succesfull burned even more clock. Also it wasn’t the Drew Wright burn the clock mode there, it was all Harper until he got hurt…then Wright came in.
The Bulldogs had no answers, so they called timeout. And at that moment, every single person in the stadium knew that Georgia was in over its head. It was instant singularity of Boise State's greatness.
-Kevan Lee
by TooMuchYoung on Nov 15, 2011 2:22 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
after this thread I want to go back and watch from just before the spike on first down
However in my disgust I deleted me recording. Maybe someone can help me out with the 2nd down play? If you look at the sequence you have:
1) clocking the ball on 1st down. In hindsight I agree with Kevan here that this might have been a mistake. Why not run a play that gives you a look at the endzone and also provides an underneath outlook to say a tight end. TCU didn’t have time to set their defense and maybe a wr could have got free deep. I say in hindsight because in the moment I was totally on board with spiking the ball and moving on to 2nd down.
2) 2nd and 10. This is where I know we completed a 5 yard pass but was this play designed for a short pick up or did it have a chance to be a big gainer? I can’t remember and the answer goes a long way towards deciding whether or not I am completely onboard with the play calling on this drive.
3) 3rd and 5. I originally hated the centering of the ball call but after much thought and discussion I am in agreement with Coach Pete (I should have just assumed it was the right play all along since our coaches are the best) If the coaches thought the best shot at a field was from straight on then risking a failed 3rd down conversion that had the chance to leave the ball in a spot other then the middle of the field would be a mistake. They thought he could make a 39 yarder and they know more than I about his ability.
Anyways….can someone breakdown the 2nd down play and discuss if it was a play that had potential to be a big play?
The Bulldogs had no answers, so they called timeout. And at that moment, every single person in the stadium knew that Georgia was in over its head. It was instant singularity of Boise State's greatness.
-Kevan Lee
by TooMuchYoung on Nov 15, 2011 2:42 AM PST via mobile reply actions
2nd down was a screen to Miller
And that’s the play (2nd down) that Coach Pete said he might change, if anything. For what it’s worth …
"Never let anyone sign your checks." - Harvey Bushkin
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2012 Boise State Football Schedule
@ Michigan State  |
Fri 08/31 | 6:00 p.m. MT |
| Miami (OH) | Sat 09/15 | 2:00 p.m. MT |
| BYU |
Thu 09/20 | TBA |
| @ New Mexico | Sat 09/29 | TBA |
| @ Southern Miss | Sat 10/06 | TBA |
| Fresno State | Sat 10/13 | 1:30 p.m. MT |
| UNLV | Sat 10/20 | 1:30 p.m. MT |
| @ Wyoming |
Sat 10/27 | 1:30 p.m. MT |
| San Diego State | Sat 11/03 | 8:30 p.m. MT |
| @ Hawaii | Sat 11/10 | 5:00 p.m. MT |
| Colorado St. | Sat 11/17 | 1:30 p.m. MT |
| @ Nevada | Sat 12/1 | TBA |
