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MWC Expansion?

The Mountain West Conference Board of Directors met today in Las Vegas to discuss the topic of future membership. After the recent defections of Brigham Young, Utah, and Texas Christian universities one might wonder if they discussed all the needed topics besides the addition of the University of Hawaii in football?

Prior to losing their three top teams, BYU becoming an independent, Utah to the Pacific Athletic Conference, and TCU to the Big East, MWC Commissioner Craig Thompson seemed more than reluctant to any change particularly with regards to conference expansion.  This is evidenced in the fact that the Mountain West only offered Boise State admission once Utah was already PAC-ing up. MWC fans, and especially Western Athletic Conference fans, had long been clamoring for expansion into a 12-team, divisional conference—the number required to support a conference championship game.

Seemingly short sighted, the MWC reasons for not expanding has been most often communicated as sic, "no desire to split current revenues" by more than the current amount of nine teams. That reasoning should feel pretty penny-wise and pound-foolish now but, the question is, "does the MWC get it yet?" As outlined back mid-June of this year in "MWC: Boise State In, Utah Out, Now What?", expansion with the correct teams would not only have protected the MWC from the poaching it’s experienced but also would have been an avenue to increase it’s luke-to-moderately warm Bowl Championship Series Auto-Qualifying resume.

The same situation still exists today albeit now it’s more on investment in a future BCS AQ bid since BYU, Utah, and TCU’s past records applicable to this BCS AQ evaluation period will apply to other conferences - or not at all. However, rebuilding to the same level and even further (with the recent and future expansion) may not be that far off for the MWC.

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Poll
Should the MWC expand with Houston, SMU or others?
Yes, at least to 12 teams for a conference championship game
122 votes
No, fine at 10
26 votes

148 votes | Poll has closed

This content was not created by OBNUG and therefore may not meet our standards. On the contrary, it probably exceeds them.

Comment 26 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Fine at 10...for now.

It would likely be in the best interest of the conference AND the Broncos to wait and see what happens in the Big 12.

"Or, if boarding the bus is just too difficult for an Establishmentarian to do, get your snob school to schedule the Broncos home-and-home. Any takers?" - Pat Forde

"I don’t need a dictionary, I have an ipad, and an expensive large university education." - hrman7

by reflectivity on Dec 24, 2010 1:12 PM PST reply actions  

this is my opinion

wait and see what happens this summer and see if any marquee teams are looking for a landing spot. the teams that the MWC would bring in now are likely to be still available then, and they wouldn’t be joining the conference any sooner if they came in now.

by pack_fan on Dec 25, 2010 9:19 PM PST up reply actions  

waiting

Seems to me “waiting” is what got the MWC into this position in the first place.

by Bluetater on Dec 26, 2010 7:28 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree

but given the current situation I think its the right move now. a few years ago it doesnt make sense to me why they wouldnt have been proactive, because there were teams like Boise out there to be had and they just sat on their hands. Since the outlay of everything is different currently I think waiting is best.

by pack_fan on Dec 27, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

B-12

I think waiting is why the MWC lost Utah, and definately TCU

by Bluetater on Dec 24, 2010 2:07 PM PST reply actions  

Yes, but

Not any two just to get to twelve. Every university added will be another team to divide up money with, so the schools would have to bring something to the table (not necessarily football). The only schools I can think of that would fit geographically and have any chance of adding enough to the program are Houston, UTEP and SMU. Can anyone think of any other possible schools?

We want to build a university our football team can be proud of. -- Dr. George Lynn Cross

by marktgarten on Dec 24, 2010 3:55 PM PST reply actions  

but.....

Hou, SMU…..maybe UTEP but as a third choice.

by Bluetater on Dec 24, 2010 4:49 PM PST reply actions  

I don’t think any others would be in play

by Bluetater on Dec 24, 2010 6:37 PM PST reply actions  

Utah State is another

they would be my last choice out of these four, but they do provide the footprint in Utah, could possibly help keep The Mtn. there, and are a good basketball school. Obviously they have a number of cons (FB program strength, etc.), but they are a candidate, and I think I remember reading they have been at least contacted by the MWC post-BYU.

by pack_fan on Dec 25, 2010 9:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Utah St

Seems Utah has had the “inside” into the MWC for sometime, maybe a way to retain some of the Utah market with BYU playing who knows in what market(s) and Utah spliting games in the PAC. Worth considering surely, depending on the other teams that could be in play.

by Bluetater on Dec 26, 2010 7:32 AM PST up reply actions  

I voted 12

but only b/c I think getting Texas teams does exactly what the writer said…builds in-roads into fertile recruiting land in Texas and the South in general. Oklahoma and Arkansas are near the Dallas area while Louisianna (sp) is right next to Houston.

Aside from that, I’m with Reflectivity. I’m anxious to see how BSU improves on the Academic end and if the Big-12 is interested.

UT owns the Big-12 and rules it with an iron fist, grabbing most of the money, glory, and exposure but other teams such as OU, Nebraska, Texas A&M, and Missouri haven’t exactly been living on the poor side of the tracks b/c of that either. I believe Boise St. has enough of it’s own appeal and moxie to make a living there just as well as anyone else and it would be a massive springboard to our current status Academically, Financially, and Recruiting Exposure wise regardless of UT’s dominance.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Dec 24, 2010 7:38 PM PST reply actions  

I honestly don't care if we don't move to an AQ conference soon

As long as we get good games (Ga, Mich St., BYU, etc) then we’re fine and I think we will be seeing many more non-AQ bids in the years to come. Let’s just hope our success continues.

by ThePhlipinSituation on Dec 25, 2010 7:18 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

other hand

Something to that, could have pretty much the non-AQ route all to otherselves for sometime …

by Bluetater on Dec 25, 2010 8:46 AM PST reply actions  

Tater

is right. At least I agree that Houston, SMU and maybe UTEP as a third choice is the best way to go. Ten does not work for Air Force and they need 12 now to be able to play the other service academies. And with two divisions we could potentially have two undefeated 12-0 teams in the top 25 with BCS ramifications at the end of the year, going into a playoff.

by bluesyourdaddy on Dec 25, 2010 9:35 AM PST reply actions  

Unless the Non-AQ route shuts down

We don’t know what the future holds at this point. Given recent comments from Big Leaguers concerning the whole non-AQ debate I would say we are very very unwelcome at this point.

It’s like an unwelcome low rank noble who is in the King’s court only because his political connections require it. As soon as the King can find a way to quietly remove those connections and protections then it’s off with his head.

If the powers that be discover a way, through political maneuvers, financial bribes, threats that can be delivered upon due to power and influence, or mutually beneficial TV business deals, to cut nojn-AQ’s out of the BCS Bowl picture completely…they won’t hesitate to do it.

All of this hinges on whether CFB fans (the customer base) really are willing to abandon the sport completely if the spirit of competition is not honored or whether the big boys gamble that they won’t leave, roll the dice and cut us off, and most the major school fans continue to watch.

Money and Club Membership vs. Competition and Gladiatorial Spirit, that’s the ballgame right there. CFB as a whole is in a precarious position right now.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Dec 25, 2010 9:36 AM PST reply actions  

non-AQ route

Can’t see them shutting down any non-AQ route. The way in now was created to avoid anti-trust litigation. The BCS will continue to give up some of it’s exculsionary policies in order to keep the money flowing.

Wouldn’t be surprised at all to see the BCS conference 2nd at-large selection be modified soon. That’s an obvious exculsion above better ranked non-AQs that is difficult to justify. This year’s BCS bowls should give it a test when UConn plays in a BCS bowl above 5 other non-AQs ranked higher in the top 25.

I said, “ranked higher” UConn wasn’t even in the BCS rankings. Pretty harder to defend now and will continue to catch flak as parity keeps plays out with more and more examples of it.

by Bluetater on Dec 25, 2010 12:34 PM PST reply actions  

Good point.

If that single Non-AQ automatic qualifier stays in place then I would prefer to stay independent from the Big-12 b/c of UT’s dominance. It would be a rather large boost initially but would still carry a glass ceiling that we would hit initially.

Locking up the lone “Non-AQ AQ bid” (LoL, sounds so ironic) from the MWC where we have a chance to own that conference as far as “sphere of influence” would be better imo.

I can’t take credit for that kind of thinking either. PAC-10 ALUM was the one that brought it up to me one time and I felt he had an excellent point there.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Dec 25, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

druthers

If I had a magjic wand, I’d say back to the WAC with BSU, FSU, NV, HI and take in the remaining best of the MWC like AF under Karl Bensen vice Craig Thompson.

Then add up to 12 with Hou and SMU for a conference play-off.

Swap the WAC’s bottom feeders NM & Uof I too but Christmas is passing and Santa didn’t come through.

by Bluetater on Dec 25, 2010 4:48 PM PST reply actions  

Stay at 10, no question

There is absolutely no reason to add more teams to the conference. The reason is because no matter who we add there is NO chance for a BCS spot. The best thing for us is to keep winning all of our games so we can make the BCS games. Adding more teams, and especially adding a championship, seriously hurs a teams odds to go undefeated.

Boise State Football: The Tim Tebow of 2010: Love 'em or Hate 'em, you've gotta Respect 'em.

by BustersBFF on Dec 26, 2010 6:14 PM PST reply actions  

odds

One way to look at it but, don’t think one could say there is no chance that the MWC expanded with the right teams and strengthened by a champ game wouldn’t rate a BCS one. The previous MWC was constiently ranking higher than the BE and ACC. This year both the WAC and MWC were dramatically ahead of them. 2012 starts a new evaluation period and the BCS will be under even more pressure by the end of it with the past performance to give something up if the MWC continues to out perform the BE & ACC.

by Bluetater on Dec 26, 2010 7:18 PM PST reply actions  

One thing I didn't consider...

With more teams and a CG, we have fewer OOC slots to go around. I have serious doubts as to whether the teams the MWC can add would trump the quality of the OOC games we could get and may actually lose that matchup by quite a bit.

I think a CG might be laughable most years unless SD St. keeps improving at it’s pace, that’s a rapidly improving team and I actually feel bad for bashing TCU earlier this year for only winning by 5 at home.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Dec 27, 2010 8:17 AM PST reply actions  

I could easily be wrong about this

but I dont think 12 would affect the amount of OOC games, since you wouldn’t play all 11 teams each year, you’d only have guaranteed games against the other 5 teams in your division with the other teams in the conference rotating somehow each year. maybe someone with more insight on how this works in other conferences with 12 teams could help me out.

by pack_fan on Dec 27, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

OOC

That’s an option pack, just depends what the conference determines to do, example the scenario you mentioned is how the B10 & SEC do it. Main reason for a play-off I think—gain the value of a tested team and even if it’s “chain-analysis” its one-level and you can get a comparison to at least 12 teams for the confernce champ, even for the runner up.

by Bluetater on Dec 27, 2010 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

they'd have to do it that way then

because if they started cutting into OOC games Airforce is gone since they already have 2 dedicated to navy/army.

by pack_fan on Dec 27, 2010 5:57 PM PST up reply actions  

It depends

If the goal is the best possible bowl, remaining at the status quo is probably the best thing, especially for getting into a BCS bowl.

If the goal is winning the MWC, a conference champion doesn’t necessarily assure that any more than it would have for say TCU in this years MWC or for Boise in the WAC, except that BSU wouldn’t have had two other co-champions in Hawaii and Nevada.

One of the arguments of the AQs this year, if you both read between the lines and the actual words of Delaney or Larry Scott, is that additional non-AQ spots in BCS bowls keeps them from gaining a second spot (Pac 10) or three spots, as Daleney was ballsey enough to claim the Big 10 was due this year (of course, ignoring the fact that one of the 3 schools would have dumped out of the top 10 and not qualified). However, I agree with Bluetater, I think the biggest likeliest change in the next few years will be some play with the six guaranteed slots and the two conference appearance limit.

Essentially, they’ll want more money to themselves. Especially the SEC and Big 10. Personally, I’m in favor of anything that gets a second Pac 10 slot on a regular basis, but not an expansion of the 2 school limit.

I think at some point, when we move closer to the super conference model, a conference championship becomes more important. Right now, for the immediate three years (although I was a yes vote as I generally like to see it settled on the field, as it really wasn’t in the WAC this year, although was, for example, in the Pac 10 WITHOUT a championship), as far as Boise is concerned, staying with the current line up is best, and seeking out the best OOC opponents, as far as (a) getting the most money, (b) getting the most exposure, and more importantly, being assured a single non-AQ slot in 2012 and through likely 2015, assuming recruitment, coaching, etc., stay up to the current standards (or improve).

I think the goal for the MWC and BSU is (a) better contracts, bowl wise and tv wise as well as (b) better attendance throughout all conference schools; © better performance by the bottom tier conference schools and (d) continued good performance at the top pier, even with TCU, Utah and BYU leaving.

It looks like San Diego State can be a good replacement for either BYU or Utah and it also opens the Southern California tv market and recruiting areas for BSU in ways that Fresno and the WAC did not. Likewise, Hawaii in football only helps in recruitment and given that the better WAC schools left or will be leaving for the MWC by 2012, hopefully, ESPN will move to negotiate a good tv appearance package to fill those Friday night slots they have been filling with WAC schools, including BSU.

I'd rather be surfing.

by Pac 10 Alum on Dec 31, 2010 1:41 AM PST reply actions  

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