Is the Mountain West Conference tougher than we all thought?
by Kevan Lee on Dec 24, 2009 6:07 AM PST
in Boise State football
60 comments
This just in: Mountain West football teams may not be overrated after all.
The MWC is 3-0 thus far in bowl season, and Bronco fans who discounted TCU's perfect record thanks to a supposedly weak conference have to be rethinking things. Is the Mountain West tougher than everyone thought? Are BYU and Utah for real? Read after the jump for more, and leave your thoughts in the comments.
BYU over Oregon State
The Beavers were a fourth down stop or two away from reaching the Rose Bowl this season, yet they never stood a chance against BYU. The Cougars led 37-7 with nine minutes left in the fourth quarter before winning handily by a final score of 44-20.
Is this the same BYU that looked like it didn't belong on the same field as Florida State? Is this the same team that TCU embarrassed at home? Even worse, are the Cougars going to jump the Broncos in the final rankings if Boise State loses?
Utah over Cal
The Utes had failed to earn a quality win all season long with losses to their three toughest opponents - BYU, TCU, and Oregon. And then the Poinsettia Bowl happened. Utah fell behind early 14-0 before reeling off 27 unanswered points and winning by a final of 37-27 over the Cal Bears, the same Cal Bears who were preseason favorites to challenge USC at the top of the Pac-10.
Does a win over Cal impress you? Was this by far Utah's best win of the season?
Wyoming over Fresno State
Boise State fans enjoyed bragging about Fresno as one of the country's toughest teams that no one knows about. The Bulldogs played close with Wisconsin and Cincinnati, and they gave BSU one of its toughest games of the year. And then they go and lose a bowl game to 6-6 Wyoming.
What does it say about the WAC that one of its best schools cannot beat a MWC also-ran? Was this a case of Wyoming playing great, Fresno playing poorly, or the inevitable swoon of a Pat Hill team? Seriously, Wyoming?
Better luck next year in Bowl Pick 'Em
Thanks the Mountain West's dominance thus far in bowl season, my pick 'em entry is a sad, pathetic 1-4, which ESPN is kind enough to remind me ranks 269,232nd overall. Anyone else had a rough go of it so far?
At least some people are doing well in OBNUG's Pick 'Em group. Here is the top ten after the first week of games:
- 7398Jacob 1, J. Hammond
- willymonkey32 1, J. Williams
- Kevan Lee is my Hero!, O. Intern
- Mr. Fisker's Opus, R. Oliver
- BSUINTHENC, J. Rigby
- Jimmy MacElroy, T. Dalling
- BroncoZAG 1, B. Connolly
- adscottam 1, A. Miner
- pickemgoodz 1, J. T
- bronconationeast, I. Smythe
Check out the official group page for the full standings.
TCU's strength of schedule looking better and better
As Drew and I debated earlier this week, part of the hope that Bronco fans can take from the TCU matchup is that the Horned Frogs are simply a product of an overrated Mountain West Conference. Well, now I'm not so sure.
If you were basing confidence on the fact that TCU easily defeated some not-so-good BYU and Utah teams, you might have to rethink that stance now. TCU's wins over the Utes and Cougars look far better now than they did a month or two ago. Are the Utah and BYU from bowl season the same teams that the Horned Frogs dismantled? Could it be that they both looked so poor because TCU made them look that way? At this point, it is at least something we all have to consider.
Think any higher of the Mountain West after their big bowl wins?
What is your take on the MWC and TCU's schedule now? Are you giving the Horned Frogs more credit for their in-conference wins? Think BYU and Utah's bowl wins were a fluke? Share your thoughts in the comments.
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As a Utah fan and MWC proponent
I hope it doesn’t sound condescending to the WAC if I say I hope Boise St is invited to the MWC after the Fiesta Bowl.
The MWC is solid right now, but the addition of you guys would elevate it above the Big East and give it a strong argument against the ACC and Big Ten.
And TCU is legit. They scored 55 points on us after turning the ball over in the red zone and kicking a 25-yard field goal on another drive. I’d pull for you guys had you been matched against a BCS team.
St Louis Game Time: Let's Go Blues!
Block U: a blog about the University of Utah
You can find me on the twitter: @achidester
No one in Bronco Nation argues that TCU is legit. And,...
If we should ever join the MWC, we still keep The Blue Turf.
I'm getting my butt handed to me in the pick'em!
I think in one of my entries I’m 0-4….AWESOOOME!
Thanks, MWC, for making me look like a doofus.
Boise State - The best in all the land (The "land" being Idaho, and large parts of California, Oregon, and Nevada.)
I stand to correct myself,
I’m 2-3 in ALL my entries, not so bad after all.
Boise State - The best in all the land (The "land" being Idaho, and large parts of California, Oregon, and Nevada.)
This doesn't affect my view of TCU
But that’s only because I thought they should have been in the NC game.
As for Utah and BYU, I thought both of them were overrated but they both showed up to play. In that regards, it definitely makes them look better in my eyes. Hopefully they’re our future conference.
ditto
TCU is TCU. Regardless of whether BYU/Utah/et al only shows up for some games or is deserving of all the hype their groupies (ESPN) gave them, TCU is still a solid team no matter the perception.
That said, curse the MWC for screwing my Bowl Mania. But also, yay!
"You know where i'm from, a little suspicion about one's true identity and motives is considered good manners."
-- Nale
They are who we thought they were.
by CaptainBronco on Dec 24, 2009 7:54 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
Catch me on the BroncoNation Podcast!
by OBNUG Intern on Dec 24, 2009 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
And we let th
Boise State - The best in all the land (The "land" being Idaho, and large parts of California, Oregon, and Nevada.)
by Mikrino on Dec 24, 2009 9:24 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
And we let them off the hook!
Boise State - The best in all the land (The "land" being Idaho, and large parts of California, Oregon, and Nevada.)
by Mikrino on Dec 24, 2009 9:25 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
HUH?
Wasn’t the MWC something like 6-0 vs. the PAC 10 last regular season? This is really no surprise, or at least it shouldn’t be.
Some might say the MWC"S success against the PAC is more a reflection of how overrated the PAC is but I disagree. Some pundits proposed that top to bottom, the PAC was playing as the toughest conference in football this season; with only the homers from the SEC media in majority disagreement. Of course for them it goes: Team, SEC, God, Country! LOL
Go Blue.
Is there a prize for last place in the pick 'em?
I am sitting at 0-5 – this would have been a good time to go with the bizzarro Kevan picks.
I still don’t think BYU and Utah were elite teams this year, but they did show up and play well in their bowl games.
"...east and west is the problem, north and south the solution."
I would just like to say one thing...
Cal SUCKS. It seems like every year they are supposed to be a serious contender for a PAC-10 title. And every year they disappoint. Their pass defense is HORRIBLE and they have a mediocre (at best) offense. I have never thought Kevin Riley is a good QB either. You would think a PAC-10 school could do better than him.
Yes.
But they still kicked their butts. Cal’s scores were most all garbage. Utah dominated on both sides of the ball nearly all game.
"You know where i'm from, a little suspicion about one's true identity and motives is considered good manners."
-- Nale
I would just like to publicly say Congrats to BYU and Utah!
I have been dogging them all season, but I have to give credit where credit is due. Good job, way to rep the Midies!
Catch me on the BroncoNation Podcast!
Motivation
I find bowl games 10 times more difficult to “pick” than regular season games. I think most of this comes down to each team’s motivation for being there.
Do you think Oregon St was a little bummed out that they went to the Las Vegas Bowl instead of the Rose Bowl? I sure do.
Do you think Cal was disappointed having been ranked in the top 10 with expectations of competing for a Pac-10 championship? Probably.
Was Wyoming super excited just to be playing in a bowl game? You betcha.
Im not trying to take anything away from Utah, BYU, or Wyoming. They all won their games fair and square but it’s probably a little easier for them to “get up” to play Pac-10 teams or in Wyoming’s case a pretty good Fresno St team.
I would still pick Oregon St to beat BYU probably 8 or 9 out of 10 times because I think the Beavs are better. I did think Utah would beat Cal. Cal always seems to struggle against quality teams. And I thought Wyoming had no chance against Fresno.
I hope this works in our favor for the Fiesta Bowl. I’m sure the TCU players watch Sports Center, read espn.com, etc and have heard over and over that they deserved a shot to play Alabama in the NCG. I would imagine the players not only hear that through the media but believe that amongst themselves. I’m guessing the Fiesta Bowl against Boise State is somewhat of a disappointment for them. I know the Broncos are happy to be in the Fiesta Bowl, they will be prepared and want revenge for last years loss. Haha hopefully I am right…
No, they are not tougher than I thought
Because I always thought the Mountain West was THAT GOOD. Their wins doesn’t surprise me at all…except Wyoming over Fresno State. But then again, that’s how Fresno State is. They lose games they should win.
Anyway, the Mountain West tends to play at a high level, especially against quality opponents. Boise State going to the Mountain West, in my opinion, is NOT a lateral move.
"Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon... with nail polish."
Sorry, but the Frogs are very happy to play in the Fiesta Bowl
I have seen arguments made here and there around the net that TCU is disappointed to be playing in the Fiesta Bowl, and playing Boise. Let me assure you, TCU is extremely motivated to play in BCS game, against A top-ten opponent on National TV (not the MTN!!)
Coach Patterson has repeatedly said that an impressive win, possibly combined with a lackluster performance from Texas and Alabama, could put the winner of the Fiesta Bowl into the Number One slot in the AP poll. Granted it’s a long shot, but so was TCU getting to the BCS. I think most Frog players and fans respect Boise St, so you guys will have to find other ways to talk yourselves into believing TCU will lay down in Arizona. Believe the hype, TCU is an extremely balanced, hardcore football team this year, ready to show the nation what they are all about. Good luck… you will need a lot of it.
by hornedfrogs_rock on Dec 24, 2009 10:16 AM PST reply actions
I agree with the "blah blah blah"
Way to stay on topic, buddy.
"You know where i'm from, a little suspicion about one's true identity and motives is considered good manners."
-- Nale
Yeah
I never wanted to play TCU cause I thought they were playing the best football out of everyone.
I don’t know about luck. We have the coaches to put our players in the right position to make plays and the players to execute when the time comes.
Given BSU's Injury Woes
it seems that TCU is the lucky one.
We want to build a university our football team can be proud of. -- Dr. George Lynn Cross
by marktgarten on Dec 24, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
Interesting take.
If you’ve actually read any of our articles, you should see that we have a lot of respect for TCU and their fans… minus their mis-spelling of Coach Peters*E*n’s name.
"You know where i'm from, a little suspicion about one's true identity and motives is considered good manners."
-- Nale
I have always thought
that TCU was the best team would could reasonably expect to play if we got into a BCS game. I did however hope we would get to play an AQ for reasons which are self-evident. As a OBNUG reader, and to the extent that is reflective of the general Bronco community, the respect accorded TCU is as high as I can rememeber seeing an opposing team get. anywhere. Without lapsing into unctuousness, I think have expressed(admirably IMO) appropriately sober assesments balanced with the confident zeal one expects from fans. Football, such a unique game in so many ways, is further distinguished by the singularity of each game. The pre-game talk is part fo the enjoyment as th egames themselves are (relatively) few and far between. Since we must talk, we must talk about something(?-that’s not even circular, its just stupid). Dont take it too seriously hornedfrog; we know you’ll show up, and proudly.
tvmunson
Listen
Cal is the Fresno State of the Pac-10, but I am still impressed with the MWC.
I think it is a little of both; the MWC is better than most thought and that the PAC-10 isn’t as tough as most thought.
Signature Pending
I think the PAC 10 is awesome
and the MWC is better.
To dis the PAC 10 is to support the East coast bias that helps hold the WAC and Boise State down.
BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter
Boise to the MWC
It pleases me to see receptivity to the idea of Boise State joining the MWC, at least on the part of a portion of the BSU fans on this site. Unfortunately, I don’t think the folks who would actually make that decision, the school and conference leadership, are as receptive. I have not, however, done a great deal of research on the matter. And being 15 years and a few more miles away from campus, I can’t say what the feeling is there. However, I think it would improve the quality of competition and the national perception of the MWC and Boise State. The new MWC could have two, five-team divisions, two (or three) out-of-conference games per season for each member and a championship game each December.
The rest of the WAC might be a little resistant to the idea…
The only problem with splitting the MWC into two divisions
is that BYU, Utah, and Boise State would all be in the North. The south would have TCU and…who? Nevada maybe? It’d be just like the Big 12, in reverse. Not sure how much fun that would be. Why not just add BSU, schedule a nine-game conference slate, and crown a champion based on head-to-head results — just like the Pac-10 does?
On the other hand, anything getting us out of playing -striked-wasting a game on Idaho every year is a good deal.
"God bless, and give 'em hell!" - David A. Wells, former BSU Marching Band Director
by mrefficiency on Dec 24, 2009 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
MWC Divisions
How about this:
MWC adds BSU, Fresno St., Nevada, Hawaii (for Hawaii Bowl!!! Full disclosure: My fiance’s family is from Honolulu). Drops New Mexico.
Mountain Division: Utah, BYU, TCU, Air Force, Wyoming, Colorado St.
West Division: BSU, Fresno St., Hawaii, Nevada, San Diego St., UNLV
Championship game in Las Vegas
We want to build a university our football team can be proud of. -- Dr. George Lynn Cross
The MWC would drop Wyoming before they drop New Mexico.
The Lobos are too strong in basketball.
St Louis Game Time: Let's Go Blues!
Block U: a blog about the University of Utah
You can find me on the twitter: @achidester
So it shall be written
So it shall be done
We want to build a university our football team can be proud of. -- Dr. George Lynn Cross
by marktgarten on Dec 25, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
They won't drop Wyoming.
Wyoming is one of the historical WAC teams and has good rivalries in the conference. They also cycle through with good football and basketball (men’s and women’s) fairly routinely.
Honestly, I can’t see the MWC dropping anybody.
Keep Wyoming for 3 words:
Mustard throwback jerseys.
"You know where i'm from, a little suspicion about one's true identity and motives is considered good manners."
-- Nale
That's A Good Start
Dividing into competitive, geographically based conferences will be a challenge. I’d like to add the rising programs at Houston and SMU, in addition to Boise State. My idea was something like this:
Mountain Division: Air Force, Houston, New Mexico, SMU, TCU, Wyoming
West Division: Boise State, BYU, Colorado State, San Diego State, UNLV, Utah
Air Force, Houston, SMU and TCU would be most competitive in the Mountain; Boise State, BYU and Utah in the West. We have to be careful to add competitive programs as much as possible. Maybe Hawaii, for Mark and his fiance, in the West (but he’s got to take me to the Hawaii Bowl!) and Tulsa in the Mountain.
And Cowboys Stadium gives us a larger venue for the championship game (which could be good and could be bad), or maybe rotate the location of the championship game. But the main thing is to start the discussion and get the idea out there.
Fear the Frog!
Right now, I'd like to add Houston and SMU to the south in the MWC.
Houston is probably around to stay, and Jones might have a good thing going in SMU. It’s still on the upswing, but that could balance things out a bit.
That shouldn't be a barrier.
Break it up differently, even if the alignment is odd, so Boise and TCU is in one division and BYU and Utah are in the other.
Say: Boise, Wyoming, SDSU, Fresno, UNM, and TCU in one division, and Utah, BYU, CSU, AFA, UNLV, and Nevada (assuming Nevada) in the other. Or something like it.
Or you could go the other way and put rivals in opposite divisions with a guaranteed game against your rival.
St Louis Game Time: Let's Go Blues!
Block U: a blog about the University of Utah
You can find me on the twitter: @achidester
Boise and BYU/Utah in one division
makes more sense geographically.
MWC North:
Boise State, Wyoming, Fresno St., UNM, Utah, AFA
MWC South:
TCU, SDSU, UNLV, Nevada, BYU, CSU
Thank you, Nick Adenhart. You will always be remembered. #34
by howiestheman on Dec 25, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
The only problem with splitting the MWC into two divisions
is that BYU, Utah, and Boise State would all be in the North. The south would have TCU and…who? Nevada maybe? It’d be just like the Big 12, in reverse. Not sure how much fun that would be. Why not just add BSU, schedule a nine-game conference slate, and crown a champion based on head-to-head results — just like the Pac-10 does?
On the other hand, anything getting us out of wasting a game on playing Idaho every year is a good deal.
"God bless, and give 'em hell!" - David A. Wells, former BSU Marching Band Director
by mrefficiency on Dec 24, 2009 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
gah, the dreaded double-post
"God bless, and give 'em hell!" - David A. Wells, former BSU Marching Band Director
by mrefficiency on Dec 24, 2009 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
As Far expanding the MWC from A Frog Perspective...
The MWC would have to find 3 teams to make 12, to qualify for NCAA rules to have a conference championship game. Obviously Boise St. would be the team we all want most in the conference. Next would be Nevada, or Fresno, but also Houston or Tulsa. Another idea would be to bring in Montana. Maybe? But the bottom line is going to be what the Big 10 and Pac 10 decide to do. No one will be allowed to do anything until those conferences get their picks, I I believe after those two make their selections, Boise, Utah, and BYU will all be in the PAC 10, and once again TCU is gonna be left out. Although if the BIg 10 took Missouri TCu might slip into the BIG 12. Are you Boise people wanting in to the Pac 10?
by hornedfrogs_rock on Dec 24, 2009 6:01 PM PST reply actions
BSU and Pac 10
I don’t see that ever happening. BSU just isn’t a big research university. Arizona St. and WASU aren’t either, but they had Arizona and UW to bring them in. Boise St. doesn’t have that. Utah and BYU, on the other hand, would fit reasonably well into Pac-10.
We want to build a university our football team can be proud of. -- Dr. George Lynn Cross
Pac-10 would be the best long term fit for BSU.
Logistics and the criteria to make the PAC-10 should be our goal. MWC would be a lateral move for the Broncos, we would out grow it again and be in the same boat facing National scrutiny and constantly being the underdog.
by BSU Alumni stranded in Portland on Dec 25, 2009 6:59 AM PST up reply actions
DAMN YOU NEVADA!!!!
why do WAC teams suck it up in bowl games!!??? AAAHHHHHHH!!!!!
*Perfection is our goal, excellence will be tolerated*
Killing your pick 'em too?
We want to build a university our football team can be proud of. -- Dr. George Lynn Cross
im just glad i didnt pick Idaho for the Human. bowl
*Perfection is our goal, excellence will be tolerated*
Let's not forget who the MWC is beating here
the Pac-10 was and is incredibly overrated this year. In fact, it is entirely possible they could do an 0-fer for the post season. If BC beats USC, then the collapse is on.
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
this one?
sure…why not? Tressel is a horrible game coach…he gets crazy conservative but their defense gives them a great chance and the Pac 10 has shown in these bowl games that their offenses have all lost their rhythm with time off. A good defense in a bowl game always gives you a chance.
"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz
This could be good for us.
If the MWC continues to be excellent, then we beat the MWC champion, we’re the league champs of every Western conference (PAC-10, WAC, MWC)…. right?
"You know where i'm from, a little suspicion about one's true identity and motives is considered good manners."
-- Nale
MWC Good as it Gets
The MWC deserves some credit for what continues to be a good year. Let’s throw Boise St., Fresno, and Nevada (or Houston) in there and make a legit AQ west conference. This conference would be as competitive, if not more so, than the others (and maybe it would shut some SEC fans up after they lost some more BCS games to us). Boise State is being held back by the relative weakness of the WAC. It’s time to start anew and help cultivate the power of the MWC. Fresno…what the hell were you thinking in that game. Jeez. Talk about a lack of respect for yourselves.
by ThePhlipinSituation on Dec 27, 2009 5:19 PM PST reply actions
Does this mean you're pulling for Air Force?
After all, anything the MWC can do to help public opinion is good if Boise joins up, even if bowl games aren’t a part of the AQ equation.
Wrong teams.
Boise State alone is sufficient and no one else really brings anything to the BCS AQ equation.
Fresno = Air Force = Tulsa = Houston as far as that goes. I would lean towards the later two (Air Force is already in) to make a east-west divisions separated naturally by some mountains.
I am not sure a ten team conference is not the best option.
BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter
Record indicates
Yes, Not to take anything away from BSU (who along with TCU was unjustly rewarded by having to play eachother) but the MWC is 3-0 with victories over Fresno State, Cal, and most impresive Oregon State. The WAC is 0-2 with losses to Wyoming and SMU. That said, I would love to add BSU to the MWC and force the issue that there needs to be one more AQ conference
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